Details on Delta TA
06-11-2015 | 10:46 AM
#7752
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
I realize you are just "the messenger" delivering this response letter. That said, DALPA attempting to justify pilot censorship during a critical time of decision making for our reps when they absolutely should be receiving our feedback in all forms, is total bunk. DALPA locked pilots away from the information for weeks/months (due to "NDA requirements") then rushed this to a vote, giving very little time for pilots to communicate feelings about what they read. Censoring pilot feedback to control the message and affect pilot/rep sentiment at any time is unacceptable.
Either you are going to operate as a bottom up organization allowing open, two way communication (not just delivering what you feel is important) with your membership at all times or you are not a democracy. DALPA lost their way and their credibility. There is no justifiable reason for smothering pilot input as has occurred.
DALPA, would have been better served apologizing for the censorship mistake and promising this will never happen again. They did not and have a recent history of NEVER owning up to mistakes and certainly aren't interested in giving up control (including their cleverly crafted message). What a sham.
Either you are going to operate as a bottom up organization allowing open, two way communication (not just delivering what you feel is important) with your membership at all times or you are not a democracy. DALPA lost their way and their credibility. There is no justifiable reason for smothering pilot input as has occurred.
DALPA, would have been better served apologizing for the censorship mistake and promising this will never happen again. They did not and have a recent history of NEVER owning up to mistakes and certainly aren't interested in giving up control (including their cleverly crafted message). What a sham.
It's tough to defend. There is no question. So I won't even try.
And I cannot speak officially for the the reasons of organization. Only post what was communicated.
But I can say for myself and the P2p volunteers, that we are striving to bring you as much unfiltered info as we can and in as transparent a manner as possible.
I applaud everyone who is spending the time on independent thoughtful analysis. Bring that to the road shows with the NC and hopefully it will help to more fully inform your personal choice on voting.
06-11-2015 | 10:52 AM
#7753
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
June 11, 2015
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)
Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1
Fellow pilots of Council 66,
The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.
Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.
“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,
“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.
“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.
“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings, in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.
“But perhaps we are missing the point.
“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.
“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.
“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.
“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.
“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’
“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.
“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.
“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.”
Respectfully,
Chairman
Council 66
[email]
“Member Driven”
Air Line Pilots Association, International
ALPA - Home
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)
Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1
Fellow pilots of Council 66,
The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.
Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.
“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,
“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.
“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.
“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings, in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.
“But perhaps we are missing the point.
“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.
“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.
“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.
“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.
“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’
“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.
“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.
“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.”
Respectfully,
Chairman
Council 66
[email]
“Member Driven”
Air Line Pilots Association, International
ALPA - Home
It gives me hope there are still a few good guys within our union willing to stand up for what is right. Appreciate that he lives his tag line as well "Member Driven"!
06-11-2015 | 10:53 AM
#7754
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=Flying Elvis;1901998]First, I'm not going to join into the chorus of denigrating the character of union reps - whether they voted yes or no - though disappointed with the vote, I'm going to trust that they did what they thought was right.
Hey Elvis,
I respect your decision to not question the character of union reps, but maybe trusting the reps to do the right thing is why we find ourselves in this situation. We have been handed a sub par TA that was approved in times of record profits and billions in givebacks to shareholders. I have to question the integrity and character of a rep who could possibly approve this POS and how little they must value themselves at this airline. I am fairly confident at this point the reps that voted yes...especially FO reps, did it for their own political motives and not because they were doing the right thing for the Delta pilots they are supposed to represent.
Hey Elvis,
I respect your decision to not question the character of union reps, but maybe trusting the reps to do the right thing is why we find ourselves in this situation. We have been handed a sub par TA that was approved in times of record profits and billions in givebacks to shareholders. I have to question the integrity and character of a rep who could possibly approve this POS and how little they must value themselves at this airline. I am fairly confident at this point the reps that voted yes...especially FO reps, did it for their own political motives and not because they were doing the right thing for the Delta pilots they are supposed to represent.
06-11-2015 | 10:55 AM
#7755
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 9
From: 3fidy
A little analysis looking at C2015 strictly from a pay stand point between now and 1/1/2017 (18 months):
1. Only 8% pay raise. 6% offset by profit sharing.
2. My guess is that 3.b.4 (me too) will be triggered some time by 1/1/17 and provide us with, say 3% so we are now down to 5%.
3. Joint venture will have to be grieved again and, if the last settlement is any indication, we'll get about a percent out of that so down to 4% over the next year and a half.
4. The redefinition of PTIX will probably cost us another percent in profit sharing so now we are down to 3% for the next 18 months.
FAIL
Denny
1. Only 8% pay raise. 6% offset by profit sharing.
2. My guess is that 3.b.4 (me too) will be triggered some time by 1/1/17 and provide us with, say 3% so we are now down to 5%.
3. Joint venture will have to be grieved again and, if the last settlement is any indication, we'll get about a percent out of that so down to 4% over the next year and a half.
4. The redefinition of PTIX will probably cost us another percent in profit sharing so now we are down to 3% for the next 18 months.
FAIL
Denny
06-11-2015 | 10:57 AM
#7756
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
From: Captain Jack
From only reading the highlights I printed off I'm disappointed. How unfortunate, I had higher hopes. Rolling year for sick time, plus reductions in sick time. Plus reduction in profit sharing. That's a solid No.
06-11-2015 | 10:58 AM
#7757
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
It's tough to defend. There is no question. So I won't even try.
And I cannot speak officially for the the reasons of organization. Only post what was communicated.
But I can say for myself and the P2p volunteers, that we are striving to bring you as much unfiltered info as we can and in as transparent a manner as possible.
And I cannot speak officially for the the reasons of organization. Only post what was communicated.
But I can say for myself and the P2p volunteers, that we are striving to bring you as much unfiltered info as we can and in as transparent a manner as possible.
Also, please leave any form of fear, uncertainty and doubt language back at MEC headquarters. Pilots are smart guys. Just the untilted facts please. Thanks.
Last edited by EdGrimley; 06-11-2015 at 11:09 AM.
06-11-2015 | 11:05 AM
#7759
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Details on Delta TA
I am sensitive to these issues.
And I felt the same in 2012.
On a personal level I thought it was highly inappropriate for the company to announce airplanes the day we pushed the TA out for MEMRAT.
There was no talk about that in the debate over the TA. Other in generalities with regards to new 195 rates. And I think it makes it look like a stick and carrot proposition and that DALPA and the company are working together.
Amazingly, that isn't the case. I know. It seems incredible. But it isn't. It looks suspect though to me if I didn't know better.
I encourage everyone to up or down vote the contract on its own accord. I also encourage everyone to talk to contemporaries and other airlines to verify the data you have been presented.
But remember that this should be a business decision for you and your family. This isn't an insult or an affront to your humanity. It may feel that way. I get it.
But it's a contract. If we all hate it. We say no and move on.
If we like it we pass it and move on and all get to do this again in 36 months.
And I felt the same in 2012.
On a personal level I thought it was highly inappropriate for the company to announce airplanes the day we pushed the TA out for MEMRAT.
There was no talk about that in the debate over the TA. Other in generalities with regards to new 195 rates. And I think it makes it look like a stick and carrot proposition and that DALPA and the company are working together.
Amazingly, that isn't the case. I know. It seems incredible. But it isn't. It looks suspect though to me if I didn't know better.
I encourage everyone to up or down vote the contract on its own accord. I also encourage everyone to talk to contemporaries and other airlines to verify the data you have been presented.
But remember that this should be a business decision for you and your family. This isn't an insult or an affront to your humanity. It may feel that way. I get it.
But it's a contract. If we all hate it. We say no and move on.
If we like it we pass it and move on and all get to do this again in 36 months.
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