Details on Delta TA
06-11-2015, 09:25 PM
#7892
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 56
Im voting NO for this thing for many many reasons, but the two that really chap my #%^ are:
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing.
2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders".
This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups...
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing.
2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders".
This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups...
06-11-2015, 09:42 PM
#7893
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: CA
Posts: 357
Long time lurker here. Just got off a trip and trying to make sense of this. It appears to be a complete fail. I am a solid NO. There is zero reason we should have such a poor offer from such a highly profitable company. A company that has been rolling in the dough we lost in bankruptcy. Now they stiff us after giving themselves huge raises and stock options? A complete insult. Who the hell approved to send this out?
06-11-2015, 11:19 PM
#7894
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by F15Cricket
I am not too good at math (well, I do fly for Alaska!), but that is only 17 days?!
06-11-2015, 11:19 PM
#7895
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,377
Originally Posted by Take Em
Im voting NO for this thing for many many reasons, but the two that really chap my #%^ are:
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing.
2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders".
This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups...
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing.
2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders".
This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups...
06-11-2015, 11:48 PM
#7896
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The profit sharing math is simple. The max percentage of pay reduction is 5.74%. If profits are 2.5 billion or less the cut is zero. It will vary between those numbers depending on profit. Keep in mind that pay raises compound, PS does not.
06-12-2015, 12:15 AM
#7897
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
If you are even considering voting yes, just remember this.
The elites are laughing at our ineptitude.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...172136155.html
In a Wednesday research note, JPMorgan analyst Jamie Baker called the deal "a welcome revision to the industry's most generous profit sharing program."
The elites are laughing at our ineptitude.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...172136155.html
In a Wednesday research note, JPMorgan analyst Jamie Baker called the deal "a welcome revision to the industry's most generous profit sharing program."
With this TA we will be 3.5% above American plus still get profit sharing that American does not get. With profit sharing, even after the reset, we will be 18.5% above American based on this year profit. If profits go even higher, to the estimated $10 billion in 2017, we could be 25% above American. Not insignificant.
06-12-2015, 12:19 AM
#7898
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
Originally Posted by MtEverest
Long time lurker here. Just got off a trip and trying to make sense of this. It appears to be a complete fail. I am a solid NO. There is zero reason we should have such a poor offer from such a highly profitable company. A company that has been rolling in the dough we lost in bankruptcy. Now they stiff us after giving themselves huge raises and stock options? A complete insult. Who the hell approved to send this out?
06-12-2015, 12:25 AM
#7899
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,418
Originally Posted by Take Em
Im voting NO for this thing for many many reasons, but the two that really chap my #%^ are:
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing.
2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders".
This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups...
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing.
2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders".
This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups...
About $35,000 - $50,000 more a year.depending on seat and aircraft.
06-12-2015, 03:12 AM
#7900
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by ERflyer
The article says "a slight move away from profit sharing".
With this TA we will be 3.5% above American plus still get profit sharing that American does not get. With profit sharing, even after the reset, we will be 18.5% above American based on this year profit. If profits go even higher, to the estimated $10 billion in 2017, we could be 25% above American. Not insignificant.
With this TA we will be 3.5% above American plus still get profit sharing that American does not get. With profit sharing, even after the reset, we will be 18.5% above American based on this year profit. If profits go even higher, to the estimated $10 billion in 2017, we could be 25% above American. Not insignificant.
Speaking of insignificant, how about that extra 5 cents per diem if we actually signed this POS. $1.20 a day. Insulting.
Are you collecting FPL to post spin and the company's talking points?
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