Details on Delta TA
06-12-2015 | 10:52 AM
#8041
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
That's how management and ALPA will win this thing.
Divide, segment and get the 51%.
I'm not picking on tsquarebender. He's not alone.
There are captains who absolutely hate seeing their FOs get green slip #4. Drives 'em nuts.
And they especially hate seeing them get a green slip after a line check trip drop which puts them at triple pay.
06-12-2015 | 10:52 AM
#8042
Mother’s finest
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 311
Likes: 8
From: 220A
There are lots of issues with this TA, but I think this one misses the mark.
If the old language specifically mentioned mechanical, then the two parties agreed to strike it, I don't think you'd have a terrible time making a case to a mediator/arbitrator about what the change means.
Yes I think the language could be phrased better, but I have always thought that about that particular section.
If the old language specifically mentioned mechanical, then the two parties agreed to strike it, I don't think you'd have a terrible time making a case to a mediator/arbitrator about what the change means.
Yes I think the language could be phrased better, but I have always thought that about that particular section.
06-12-2015 | 10:57 AM
#8043
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
Has anybody seen the pay rates on them other than the 12 year scale that NOBODY will be getting? Anybody going forward that can hold captain on this will bid off in year 5 to something bigger that stupidly pays more. FOs will be gone as soon as they are off their freezes. Get your LCP application in on that one folks. They gonna be bizzzzzzy.
06-12-2015 | 10:57 AM
#8044
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 0
From: Decoupled
What does a historic, best airline contract in the world look like?
While everyone is whittling down their expectations and not reflecting on their surveys, I thought I would post what most here may have expected.
1. Untouched profit sharing.
2. 20% date of signing or AA+1 then cola
3. Teeth put into the upper end scope, not concessions and guaranteed shrinkage.
4. Paid health insurance
5. ERISA maximum 401k contribution paid by company catchup contributions paid by pilot.
6. International, night and per diem pay at the top of the industry.
7. Seniority bidding rights status quo
8. Trips touching vacation (FedEx has it - remember worlds greatest contract)
9. Etc
While you are arguing over scraps to try to retain your dignity, remember, pilots are fixers...you do not have to fix this or figure out how you can make it work...no matter what, you are not getting a red bull at the top of descent.
If you vote yes for this concessionary contract during the best negotiating environment you have ever seen, you cannot retain the dignity that you made the job/profession better...it doesn't work like that.
Voting yes on this is no different that eating food you just pulled out of the dumpster. Status quo is a ok by me.
While everyone is whittling down their expectations and not reflecting on their surveys, I thought I would post what most here may have expected.
1. Untouched profit sharing.
2. 20% date of signing or AA+1 then cola
3. Teeth put into the upper end scope, not concessions and guaranteed shrinkage.
4. Paid health insurance
5. ERISA maximum 401k contribution paid by company catchup contributions paid by pilot.
6. International, night and per diem pay at the top of the industry.
7. Seniority bidding rights status quo
8. Trips touching vacation (FedEx has it - remember worlds greatest contract)
9. Etc
While you are arguing over scraps to try to retain your dignity, remember, pilots are fixers...you do not have to fix this or figure out how you can make it work...no matter what, you are not getting a red bull at the top of descent.
If you vote yes for this concessionary contract during the best negotiating environment you have ever seen, you cannot retain the dignity that you made the job/profession better...it doesn't work like that.
Voting yes on this is no different that eating food you just pulled out of the dumpster. Status quo is a ok by me.
06-12-2015 | 10:59 AM
#8045
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 112
For everyone asking about quarterly results and PTIX and profit sharing, this is the deal....
I feel as though there is a fundamental misunderstanding about pay and profit sharing. I'm not here to argue for or against nor am I going to tell you how pay raises are going to be funded.
But the reality is that Q earnings are completely irrelevant. First off, we are still under the old profit sharing scheme for this year. 2016 is when the change would be in effect.
If you reference the bar graph of 6 billion PTIX 2018 salary+profit sharing, with and without a deal (I posted earlier); this is the worst case scenario. We will be making more money with this deal across the board no matter what.
Anything above $6BN we will start making significantly more.
I think making the pay / p/s argument is a poor one. This deal gives all of us more money, regardless.
The questions to ask are:
1. Is in enough money?
2. Is it enough money in light of what you view as concessions in other areas?
I think that is a more honest debate to have.
I feel as though there is a fundamental misunderstanding about pay and profit sharing. I'm not here to argue for or against nor am I going to tell you how pay raises are going to be funded.
But the reality is that Q earnings are completely irrelevant. First off, we are still under the old profit sharing scheme for this year. 2016 is when the change would be in effect.
If you reference the bar graph of 6 billion PTIX 2018 salary+profit sharing, with and without a deal (I posted earlier); this is the worst case scenario. We will be making more money with this deal across the board no matter what.
Anything above $6BN we will start making significantly more.
I think making the pay / p/s argument is a poor one. This deal gives all of us more money, regardless.
The questions to ask are:
1. Is in enough money?
2. Is it enough money in light of what you view as concessions in other areas?
I think that is a more honest debate to have.
06-12-2015 | 11:03 AM
#8046
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,327
Likes: 818
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
This is why we still have profit sharing. I do not disagree with your logic. Ancillary revenue streams are a key strategy of the company.
Profit sharing has changed in this TA yes. But only changed. You will still make more money under this TA every single year it is effect, regardless of Delta profit and declared PTIX.
Profit sharing has changed in this TA yes. But only changed. You will still make more money under this TA every single year it is effect, regardless of Delta profit and declared PTIX.
And we are guaranteed to make permanent the concessions in QOL not only for the duration of this contract but for all future contracts.
06-12-2015 | 11:03 AM
#8047
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
And there you have it.
That's how management and ALPA will win this thing.
Divide, segment and get the 51%.
I'm not picking on tsquarebender. He's not alone.
There are captains who absolutely hate seeing their FOs get green slip #4. Drives 'em nuts.
And they especially hate seeing them get a green slip after a line check trip drop which puts them at triple pay.
That's how management and ALPA will win this thing.
Divide, segment and get the 51%.
I'm not picking on tsquarebender. He's not alone.
There are captains who absolutely hate seeing their FOs get green slip #4. Drives 'em nuts.
And they especially hate seeing them get a green slip after a line check trip drop which puts them at triple pay.
06-12-2015 | 11:03 AM
#8048
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 300
Likes: 20
From: Scratching my head in the right seat of a Douglas product
And there you have it.
That's how management and ALPA will win this thing.
Divide, segment and get the 51%.
I'm not picking on tsquarebender. He's not alone.
There are captains who absolutely hate seeing their FOs get green slip #4. Drives 'em nuts.
And they especially hate seeing them get a green slip after a line check trip drop which puts them at triple pay.
That's how management and ALPA will win this thing.
Divide, segment and get the 51%.
I'm not picking on tsquarebender. He's not alone.
There are captains who absolutely hate seeing their FOs get green slip #4. Drives 'em nuts.
And they especially hate seeing them get a green slip after a line check trip drop which puts them at triple pay.
I had a Captain I was flying with tell me that I was stealing when he found out I was getting over 45 hours of credit for 2 days work.... I told him that I am okay with that, because what we gave up to get that caused me to commute across the country for a year because of the new hire seat lock... Now all of a sudden we are supposed to give up the good we got for, wait for it, an even longer new hire seat lock! I wonder if that Captain had a new hire seat lock?? Clearly I haven't stolen enough!
06-12-2015 | 11:03 AM
#8049
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Likes: 0
DALPA's dark team has been workng overtime to spin this TA.
Here is the simple fact:
This total TA comes down to an 8% hourly increase and massive concessions.
8% DOS
The 6% 1/1/16 is fully offset by a reduction in profit sharing. A reduction 98% of the Delta pilots opposed.
The 3% in 2017 and 2018 will barely cover cost of living if we are lucky.
Spread the word to every pilot you come in contact with.
Here is the simple fact:
This total TA comes down to an 8% hourly increase and massive concessions.
8% DOS
The 6% 1/1/16 is fully offset by a reduction in profit sharing. A reduction 98% of the Delta pilots opposed.
The 3% in 2017 and 2018 will barely cover cost of living if we are lucky.
Spread the word to every pilot you come in contact with.
06-12-2015 | 11:04 AM
#8050
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
I think it has a lot of relevance. It points out our leverage. A no vote will cause a stock slide which will impact the wealth of our Executives. Maybe they would come back to the table to make this TA more tolerable, despite MD's statements about this being the end of the process.
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