Details on Delta TA
06-16-2015 | 06:12 PM
#9371
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
06-16-2015 | 06:13 PM
#9372
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,537
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From: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
You could be right. But a good counter tactic is to get people sensitized as to what they're going to face at the road shows. They'll face administration folks discussing their opinions and trying to portray them as contractual fact. The more practiced you are at countering that BS, the better.
Carl
Carl
More warning....
If you go to the roadshow and refuse to take the spin for what it is, you will then start getting bullied with comments like "we've answered your question numerous times now, can we please move on"....blatantly attempting to publicly shame you...when in fact they haven't answered your question(s) at all. They will gang up on you, too, so it's important to have some compadres in the crowd who are briefed on the tactics who will back you up with a "no you haven't" so people cannot be singled out by the bullies.
"Show me the specific language in the TA where it says that" is the single most effective counter you can pose them.
They are practiced at this. You need to be ready for it.
.
Last edited by SayAlt; 06-16-2015 at 06:25 PM.
06-16-2015 | 06:15 PM
#9373
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
Question for Professor and Sink
Did not see an answer so re-posting this:
Guys,
First off thanks for volunteering. Here is my question.
For months I have been hearing from DALPA that the company will have their wants and this is a negotiation and that both sides will have to make concessions.
So what were our concessions? I have yet to hear about a single concession from the official DALPA correspondence. Since you guys are dealing with facts please list what concessions of ours that this TA includes.
Thanks Scoop
Guys,
First off thanks for volunteering. Here is my question.
For months I have been hearing from DALPA that the company will have their wants and this is a negotiation and that both sides will have to make concessions.
So what were our concessions? I have yet to hear about a single concession from the official DALPA correspondence. Since you guys are dealing with facts please list what concessions of ours that this TA includes.
Thanks Scoop
06-16-2015 | 06:23 PM
#9376
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
You lied to all of us in your response to Denny. You owe everyone an apology and a pledge to not do it again.
Carl
06-16-2015 | 06:26 PM
#9378
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
This will be a very damaging TA regardless of how we vote on it. It we pass it we eat massive concessions all around, including unprecidented foreign alter ego airlines and a lower and further reduceable AF/KLM JV. If we vote against it it will take a strong effort to overcome the baseline it created.
So I propose we gift the company 100 million dollars.
That's right, and I'm not kidding.
If the net value of this TA is supposedly 1.1B over 3 years, and assuming it was properly comprehensively costed out (I don't think it was, but the company and the NC will absolutely stand by that it was) then when we vote it down let's offer 1.0B over 3 years to our current contract and put it in payrates alone. Nothing else. Nothing. Else.
The company couldn't possibly have a problem with that, could they? If the true net cost was 1.1B extra and we're offering them a free 100M (to return to the shareholders! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!) then they would be a fiduciary obligation for them to accept that.
Assuming this TA was properly costed out all around that is. Which further assumes they would *never* do any of the worst case things that they *could* do IAW this TA, like massive sick harassment on a scale never before seen, foreign alter egos, 75/76's against a new A380 order for our "partners" AF/KLM, etc.
If the true cost of the pros and cons cost 1.1B extra, from our point of view and theirs, give them one hundred million dollars, or donate it to the charity of their choice, and put the 1.0B into pay rates alone and stick with current book.
What possibe problem could they have with that?
So I propose we gift the company 100 million dollars.
That's right, and I'm not kidding.
If the net value of this TA is supposedly 1.1B over 3 years, and assuming it was properly comprehensively costed out (I don't think it was, but the company and the NC will absolutely stand by that it was) then when we vote it down let's offer 1.0B over 3 years to our current contract and put it in payrates alone. Nothing else. Nothing. Else.
The company couldn't possibly have a problem with that, could they? If the true net cost was 1.1B extra and we're offering them a free 100M (to return to the shareholders! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!) then they would be a fiduciary obligation for them to accept that.
Assuming this TA was properly costed out all around that is. Which further assumes they would *never* do any of the worst case things that they *could* do IAW this TA, like massive sick harassment on a scale never before seen, foreign alter egos, 75/76's against a new A380 order for our "partners" AF/KLM, etc.
If the true cost of the pros and cons cost 1.1B extra, from our point of view and theirs, give them one hundred million dollars, or donate it to the charity of their choice, and put the 1.0B into pay rates alone and stick with current book.
What possibe problem could they have with that?
1. Shows the absurdity of the costing numbers DALPA has used.
2. Makes people think about what DALPA is trying to sell.
3. Makes the point without any personal attacks.
Ps. You would also keep the 2012 PS
06-16-2015 | 06:40 PM
#9380
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Did not see an answer so re-posting this:
Guys,
First off thanks for volunteering. Here is my question.
For months I have been hearing from DALPA that the company will have their wants and this is a negotiation and that both sides will have to make concessions.
So what were our concessions? I have yet to hear about a single concession from the official DALPA correspondence. Since you guys are dealing with facts please list what concessions of ours that this TA includes.
Thanks Scoop
Guys,
First off thanks for volunteering. Here is my question.
For months I have been hearing from DALPA that the company will have their wants and this is a negotiation and that both sides will have to make concessions.
So what were our concessions? I have yet to hear about a single concession from the official DALPA correspondence. Since you guys are dealing with facts please list what concessions of ours that this TA includes.
Thanks Scoop
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