Details on Delta TA
06-17-2015 | 02:43 PM
#9601
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
I'm still sifting through this rather awesome live feed from the PTC roadshow on facebook. Someone 
took the time to post it to the 1500 plus pilots who joined the Pilots Against the TA group and it is very good.
took the time to post it to the 1500 plus pilots who joined the Pilots Against the TA group and it is very good.
06-17-2015 | 02:45 PM
#9602
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
I'm NOT answering you because I'm not on FPL, I answered them and you didn't like the answers. But, I'll give you answers as the TA language says again; and you really aren't going to like these because, the TA language doesn't exist for many of your questions. At all.
Professor,
When you are back on FPL I would still like answers to these questions:
Original Questions-
Using all the language, sections/subsections in the new contract (not just cherry picking the section you decide to cite), is there any scenario where Delta or their third party provider (or anybody else that is not me or the doctor I use) will ask me to provide my medical records? Cite this language from the TA.
Along with this answer please provide:
1. All scenarios where this can happen.
Never will the DHS have access to your medical records. A verification or medical release only covers a description of the illness. IF you are gone more than 4 months sick, just received a special issuance or if 'there is reason to believe he may not meet physical standards'. This language already exists. It is not new and is in section 15 of the contract. Please go and see for yourself. 15B.
2. How far back they can go.
June 1, 2015 on a rolling window. But only for verification. Again, your medical records can only be reviewed via the 15B1 clause i mention above. Which is current contract language right now.
3. The likely and potential consequences for me not turning over my medical records?
Outside the scope off all language in any PWA. What is the punishment for NOT doing something? What happens if you don't report for a trip? What happens if you don't comply with other PWA sections? I can't tell you, because you are not complying with the PWA. Ask your lawyer about this, not me. I can't tell you what the company will do if you don't do your job as outlined in a working agreement.
Follow up Questions-
1. I asked you to cite the language. Please show the old language and new language and describe in more detail. You really were not complete in your answer. Is there any scenario where more than just the doctors notes of the item in question (ie sore throat) can be requested? Who can request that information? Also speak more in depth to "When you're in the medical release window 24 days in 365, 56 in 3 years". Be specific and all inclusive.
I answer this above but verification and release just is for specific information on the specific illness. NOT a medical records release.
2. You failed to answer this question. Instead you chose to give an answer to a different question (which also appears to not be truthful). Please answer the question I asked. How far back can they can go?
There is not a rearward looking witch hunt. Again, it starts june 1st of this year.
3. Please expand on this. Could there also be disciplinary action? Could someone be fired for not supplying this information? Could a pilots desire to keep their medical records private lead to pilots flying sick to not deal with the paper chase and threat of disciplinary action? Does the new policy increase the chance pilots will not be paid when they are sick due to using people or organizations established to deny as many claims as possible to reduce costs to Delta?
as I mention above, you are better to talk to a lawyer about not satisfying the agreed conditions by which your employment is provided. There is ZERO change, i will repeat that ZERO change from the current language governing medical review and the new TA. Section 15 runs this review and has not been changed.
When you are back on FPL I would still like answers to these questions:
Original Questions-
Using all the language, sections/subsections in the new contract (not just cherry picking the section you decide to cite), is there any scenario where Delta or their third party provider (or anybody else that is not me or the doctor I use) will ask me to provide my medical records? Cite this language from the TA.
Along with this answer please provide:
1. All scenarios where this can happen.
Never will the DHS have access to your medical records. A verification or medical release only covers a description of the illness. IF you are gone more than 4 months sick, just received a special issuance or if 'there is reason to believe he may not meet physical standards'. This language already exists. It is not new and is in section 15 of the contract. Please go and see for yourself. 15B.
2. How far back they can go.
June 1, 2015 on a rolling window. But only for verification. Again, your medical records can only be reviewed via the 15B1 clause i mention above. Which is current contract language right now.
3. The likely and potential consequences for me not turning over my medical records?
Outside the scope off all language in any PWA. What is the punishment for NOT doing something? What happens if you don't report for a trip? What happens if you don't comply with other PWA sections? I can't tell you, because you are not complying with the PWA. Ask your lawyer about this, not me. I can't tell you what the company will do if you don't do your job as outlined in a working agreement.
Follow up Questions-
1. I asked you to cite the language. Please show the old language and new language and describe in more detail. You really were not complete in your answer. Is there any scenario where more than just the doctors notes of the item in question (ie sore throat) can be requested? Who can request that information? Also speak more in depth to "When you're in the medical release window 24 days in 365, 56 in 3 years". Be specific and all inclusive.
I answer this above but verification and release just is for specific information on the specific illness. NOT a medical records release.
2. You failed to answer this question. Instead you chose to give an answer to a different question (which also appears to not be truthful). Please answer the question I asked. How far back can they can go?
There is not a rearward looking witch hunt. Again, it starts june 1st of this year.
3. Please expand on this. Could there also be disciplinary action? Could someone be fired for not supplying this information? Could a pilots desire to keep their medical records private lead to pilots flying sick to not deal with the paper chase and threat of disciplinary action? Does the new policy increase the chance pilots will not be paid when they are sick due to using people or organizations established to deny as many claims as possible to reduce costs to Delta?
as I mention above, you are better to talk to a lawyer about not satisfying the agreed conditions by which your employment is provided. There is ZERO change, i will repeat that ZERO change from the current language governing medical review and the new TA. Section 15 runs this review and has not been changed.
06-17-2015 | 02:47 PM
#9603
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Yes Professor, I know I know it is OE tagged hours, I don't think I said anything to the contrary. There is enough damage done with just that. For me to not like it. I haven't read one thing from the Union that addresses why they thought it was a good idea to give that back to the company.
Just adding for clarification only, did not mean to sound pedantic.
Thanks.
06-17-2015 | 02:54 PM
#9604
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Those are facts folks. It's in the TA language.
Carl
06-17-2015 | 02:57 PM
#9605
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
06-17-2015 | 03:05 PM
#9606
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
For months I have been hearing from DALPA that the company will have their wants and this is a negotiation and that both sides will have to make concessions.
So what were our concessions? I have yet to hear about a single concession from the official DALPA correspondence. Since you guys are dealing with facts please list what concessions of ours that this TA includes.
So what were our concessions? I have yet to hear about a single concession from the official DALPA correspondence. Since you guys are dealing with facts please list what concessions of ours that this TA includes.
Carl
06-17-2015 | 03:18 PM
#9607
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
On the LCA trip pull thing, think about how many new hires we have right now, and how many are being hired. If the company hires 1000 per year, that's AT LEAST 2000 trips per year, as they all need at least a couple trips for IOE.
Now add in all the first time Captain upgrades and F/O and Captain seat changes from all the A/E's for the past 12 months. They usually get two trips for OE too.
I'll bet the real answer is; we had probably over 4,000 LCA trips last year, maybe more.
That's at least 3,000 less 'good' trips for F/O's to bid, spread across the system of course, but the net effect is a whole lot less manning required in the F/O seats, and/or a whole lot less GS's if those guys are now on reserve.
Here's the napkin math: If the average IOE trip is 25 hours x 3000 IOE trips = 75,000 hours of trips, divided by an average line value of 75 hours = 1,000 fewer pilots required. THAT's why the company wants this!
The Trip Drop for IOE is one of the last good deals in our contract and for some reason, DALPA agreed to give it away.
Now add in all the first time Captain upgrades and F/O and Captain seat changes from all the A/E's for the past 12 months. They usually get two trips for OE too.
I'll bet the real answer is; we had probably over 4,000 LCA trips last year, maybe more.
That's at least 3,000 less 'good' trips for F/O's to bid, spread across the system of course, but the net effect is a whole lot less manning required in the F/O seats, and/or a whole lot less GS's if those guys are now on reserve.
Here's the napkin math: If the average IOE trip is 25 hours x 3000 IOE trips = 75,000 hours of trips, divided by an average line value of 75 hours = 1,000 fewer pilots required. THAT's why the company wants this!
The Trip Drop for IOE is one of the last good deals in our contract and for some reason, DALPA agreed to give it away.
Above I said 1000 less pilots required but it's actually 1000 less Lines of F/O trips awarded, per year, which is not 1000 less pilots. If you divide the 1000 less lines (per year) by 12 months, that's 83 less lines /pilots required per month, but that all depends on how many actual IOE trips Delta is going to be doing with all the retirements, A/E's and new hires coming in the next few years. I think my 4,000 number is low.
06-17-2015 | 03:20 PM
#9608
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
An enormous giveback and loss of pilot jobs and pilot upgrade opportunities.
What TA language does that?
Complete falsehood. There is no such downside protection in the TA language because we are only protected for block hours now...not seats or aircraft size. The Euro's can upgrade to an all A380 fleet for their side of the JV, and cut back their block hours as a result. Delta would then be REQUIRED to reduce block hours so as not to exceed our share of the block hours.
An enormous concession that will directly reduce FO seniority and hiring opportunities for pilots not hired yet.
Another massive concession and a completely legal method of removing HIPAA rights from Delta pilots.
Carl
What TA language does that?
Complete falsehood. There is no such downside protection in the TA language because we are only protected for block hours now...not seats or aircraft size. The Euro's can upgrade to an all A380 fleet for their side of the JV, and cut back their block hours as a result. Delta would then be REQUIRED to reduce block hours so as not to exceed our share of the block hours.
An enormous concession that will directly reduce FO seniority and hiring opportunities for pilots not hired yet.
Carl
06-17-2015 | 03:28 PM
#9610
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
From: CA
I'm NOT answering you because I'm not on FPL, I answered them and you didn't like the answers. But, I'll give you answers as the TA language says again; and you really aren't going to like these because, the TA language doesn't exist for many of your questions. At all.
Originally Posted by MtEverest View Post
Professor,
When you are back on FPL I would still like answers to these questions:
Original Questions-
Using all the language, sections/subsections in the new contract (not just cherry picking the section you decide to cite), is there any scenario where Delta or their third party provider (or anybody else that is not me or the doctor I use) will ask me to provide my medical records? Cite this language from the TA.
Along with this answer please provide:
1. All scenarios where this can happen.
Never will the DHS have access to your medical records. A verification or medical release only covers a description of the illness. IF you are gone more than 4 months sick, just received a special issuance or if 'there is reason to believe he may not meet physical standards'. This language already exists. It is not new and is in section 15 of the contract. Please go and see for yourself. 15B.
2. How far back they can go.
June 1, 2015 on a rolling window. But only for verification. Again, your medical records can only be reviewed via the 15B1 clause i mention above. Which is current contract language right now.
3. The likely and potential consequences for me not turning over my medical records?
Outside the scope off all language in any PWA. What is the punishment for NOT doing something? What happens if you don't report for a trip? What happens if you don't comply with other PWA sections? I can't tell you, because you are not complying with the PWA. Ask your lawyer about this, not me. I can't tell you what the company will do if you don't do your job as outlined in a working agreement.
Follow up Questions-
1. I asked you to cite the language. Please show the old language and new language and describe in more detail. You really were not complete in your answer. Is there any scenario where more than just the doctors notes of the item in question (ie sore throat) can be requested? Who can request that information? Also speak more in depth to "When you're in the medical release window 24 days in 365, 56 in 3 years". Be specific and all inclusive.
I answer this above but verification and release just is for specific information on the specific illness. NOT a medical records release.
2. You failed to answer this question. Instead you chose to give an answer to a different question (which also appears to not be truthful). Please answer the question I asked. How far back can they can go?
There is not a rearward looking witch hunt. Again, it starts june 1st of this year.
3. Please expand on this. Could there also be disciplinary action? Could someone be fired for not supplying this information? Could a pilots desire to keep their medical records private lead to pilots flying sick to not deal with the paper chase and threat of disciplinary action? Does the new policy increase the chance pilots will not be paid when they are sick due to using people or organizations established to deny as many claims as possible to reduce costs to Delta?
as I mention above, you are better to talk to a lawyer about not satisfying the agreed conditions by which your employment is provided. There is ZERO change, i will repeat that ZERO change from the current language governing medical review and the new TA. Section 15 runs this review and has not been changed.
Professor,
When you are back on FPL I would still like answers to these questions:
Original Questions-
Using all the language, sections/subsections in the new contract (not just cherry picking the section you decide to cite), is there any scenario where Delta or their third party provider (or anybody else that is not me or the doctor I use) will ask me to provide my medical records? Cite this language from the TA.
Along with this answer please provide:
1. All scenarios where this can happen.
Never will the DHS have access to your medical records. A verification or medical release only covers a description of the illness. IF you are gone more than 4 months sick, just received a special issuance or if 'there is reason to believe he may not meet physical standards'. This language already exists. It is not new and is in section 15 of the contract. Please go and see for yourself. 15B.
2. How far back they can go.
June 1, 2015 on a rolling window. But only for verification. Again, your medical records can only be reviewed via the 15B1 clause i mention above. Which is current contract language right now.
3. The likely and potential consequences for me not turning over my medical records?
Outside the scope off all language in any PWA. What is the punishment for NOT doing something? What happens if you don't report for a trip? What happens if you don't comply with other PWA sections? I can't tell you, because you are not complying with the PWA. Ask your lawyer about this, not me. I can't tell you what the company will do if you don't do your job as outlined in a working agreement.
Follow up Questions-
1. I asked you to cite the language. Please show the old language and new language and describe in more detail. You really were not complete in your answer. Is there any scenario where more than just the doctors notes of the item in question (ie sore throat) can be requested? Who can request that information? Also speak more in depth to "When you're in the medical release window 24 days in 365, 56 in 3 years". Be specific and all inclusive.
I answer this above but verification and release just is for specific information on the specific illness. NOT a medical records release.
2. You failed to answer this question. Instead you chose to give an answer to a different question (which also appears to not be truthful). Please answer the question I asked. How far back can they can go?
There is not a rearward looking witch hunt. Again, it starts june 1st of this year.
3. Please expand on this. Could there also be disciplinary action? Could someone be fired for not supplying this information? Could a pilots desire to keep their medical records private lead to pilots flying sick to not deal with the paper chase and threat of disciplinary action? Does the new policy increase the chance pilots will not be paid when they are sick due to using people or organizations established to deny as many claims as possible to reduce costs to Delta?
as I mention above, you are better to talk to a lawyer about not satisfying the agreed conditions by which your employment is provided. There is ZERO change, i will repeat that ZERO change from the current language governing medical review and the new TA. Section 15 runs this review and has not been changed.
When I asked how far back can they go, I'm talking about into your medical records. Let's say you had surgery on your wrist in 2010. The wrist is giving you problems now causing a sick call as you try to get operational/PT, etc. Since it is related could they require medical records back to the previous surgery on your wrist?
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