Details on Delta TA
06-17-2015, 07:29 AM
#9501
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by MtEverest
Professor since you may have forgotten and have failed to answer:
This is an important question that I would like answered.
Using all the language, sections/subsections in the new contract (not just cherry picking the section you decide to site), is there any scenario where Delta or their third party provider (or anybody else that is not me or the doctor I use) will ask me to provide my medical records? Site this language from the TA.
Along with this answer please provide:
1. All scenarios where this can happen.
2. How far back they can go.
3. The likely and potential consequences for me not turning over my medical records?
Be specific. We will be revisiting this answer in the future should this language become part of our new contract.
You have stated you are here to answer questions honestly to educate those trying to decide on this TA. You have stated you are getting paid by DALPA to answer these questions. I expect detailed and all encompassing answers. Please do not use lawyerly/Clinetonesque definitions. Deliver a complete answer. If you do not know, don't "guess" or say "I think". Go to those who purportedly know this language cold and who agreed to put it into the TA. Deliver it and let's not lose anything in translation. Thank You.
PS- I want my answer here and not at a roadshow where they dump a bunch of garbage info into the equation to confuse things....similar to what you have done here earlier.
This is an important question that I would like answered.
Using all the language, sections/subsections in the new contract (not just cherry picking the section you decide to site), is there any scenario where Delta or their third party provider (or anybody else that is not me or the doctor I use) will ask me to provide my medical records? Site this language from the TA.
Along with this answer please provide:
1. All scenarios where this can happen.
2. How far back they can go.
3. The likely and potential consequences for me not turning over my medical records?
Be specific. We will be revisiting this answer in the future should this language become part of our new contract.
You have stated you are here to answer questions honestly to educate those trying to decide on this TA. You have stated you are getting paid by DALPA to answer these questions. I expect detailed and all encompassing answers. Please do not use lawyerly/Clinetonesque definitions. Deliver a complete answer. If you do not know, don't "guess" or say "I think". Go to those who purportedly know this language cold and who agreed to put it into the TA. Deliver it and let's not lose anything in translation. Thank You.
PS- I want my answer here and not at a roadshow where they dump a bunch of garbage info into the equation to confuse things....similar to what you have done here earlier.
His original post. Sorry for the lack of context.
Prof
06-17-2015, 07:31 AM
#9502
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Originally Posted by Professor
Absolutely false scambo. With respect.
The hyperbole doesn't help. There are no Mac truck sized holes. Seriously. It's just a change in verification process and times.
The hyperbole doesn't help. There are no Mac truck sized holes. Seriously. It's just a change in verification process and times.
In both cases the initial support I received from ALPA was poor to non existent.
At least I was able to walk into a chief pilot's office and speak face-to-face with a fellow pilot to sort out the denial coming from a cubicle in ATL. When the people in the cubicle in ATL no longer belong to Flight-Ops, that will be a lot more difficult...
Cheers
George
06-17-2015, 07:33 AM
#9503
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by georgetg
I've had two bad experiences with sick leave verification. In both cases my MD's filled out sick leave verification form was "denied."
In both cases the initial support I received from ALPA was poor to non existent.
At least I was able to walk into a chief pilot's office and speak face-to-face with a fellow pilot to sort out the denial coming from a cubicle in ATL.
When the people in the cubicle in ATL no longer belong to Flight-Ops, that will be a lot more difficult...
Cheers
George
In both cases the initial support I received from ALPA was poor to non existent.
At least I was able to walk into a chief pilot's office and speak face-to-face with a fellow pilot to sort out the denial coming from a cubicle in ATL.
When the people in the cubicle in ATL no longer belong to Flight-Ops, that will be a lot more difficult...
Cheers
George
Well the good news is that when you have to go talk to the cpo now, you get suit up pay.
And not knowing the specifics of your case, I can't comment.
06-17-2015, 07:34 AM
#9504
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Professor
His original post. Sorry for the lack of context.
Prof
Prof
My problem with this is that it is akin to Obamacare and it's 'good intentions'. I am sure that at this moment in time there is nothing nefarious in this. However, the camel is now in the tent. My "willingness" to allow access to my medical records - for the specific incident only - soon gets transformed into all areas access. I am VERY concerned that we are going to be forced to sign away our HIPPA rights and privacy. I have nothing to hide in my records, I think Dr Faulkner is a wonderful representative of both DAL and the pilots, but this worries me going forward. I don't see the protections here.
06-17-2015, 07:35 AM
#9505
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Hey Professor,
Will I need to sign a release for the medical records for my wife or children when I call in sick for family members (California law) if I exceed 15 days sick?
Cheers
George
Will I need to sign a release for the medical records for my wife or children when I call in sick for family members (California law) if I exceed 15 days sick?
Cheers
George
06-17-2015, 07:36 AM
#9506
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Professor
Well the good news is that when you have to go talk to the cpo now, you get suit up pay.
And not knowing the specifics of your case, I can't comment.
And not knowing the specifics of your case, I can't comment.
06-17-2015, 07:39 AM
#9507
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
Originally Posted by Professor
Everest,
Your answers.
1) Yes. When you're in the medical release window (24 days in 365, 56 in 3 years)
2). The medical release itself is unchanged from the current contract. It is limited to the specific sick occurrence, and not a general release of your medical records
3)you won't get paid for the sick call
Your answers.
1) Yes. When you're in the medical release window (24 days in 365, 56 in 3 years)
2). The medical release itself is unchanged from the current contract. It is limited to the specific sick occurrence, and not a general release of your medical records
3)you won't get paid for the sick call
Not exactly how it's written in the TA.
1) The medical release window could be anytime the DHS is unable to make a determination based on the information you've provided. Even if you haven't met the threshold. That's subjective, and totally up to them.
2) The release can then be expanded, again totally subjective and solely at the DHS discretion, to include an exam by a company picked doctor, and the Vice President of Flight Operations. No doctor will take the time to redact impertinent health information from the results of the written release. That includes social history, medications, health issues, and as soon as the FAA releases the new regs, your mental health records. Good luck getting any of that redacted.
Again, "or his designee" could be anyone. It most certainly could be a third party. I'm sorry, but "The company told us" is not a contractual obligation.
Most major corporations, S&P500 we're talking, use third party verification. Time Warner, AT&T, and so on. We are already using it for a large portion of our own employees. What in this TA prevents that from happening? The answer: Nothing. We agree to allow an unspecified 'designee' to evaluate our health and our sick leave usage.
06-17-2015, 07:39 AM
#9508
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Industry Leading
Posts: 31
You know, in the big picture, if this is the best we can do ( the contract cost to the company is, well, we save the company 100 million ) during a time of record profits, then voting "yes" is a vote for the end of this career as one worth pursuing. Because we are restoring nothing to the quality of life parts of the contract, are actually installing bankruptcy era concessions (UAL got the LCA 75% deal during their bankruptcy) and are still well-below inflation adjusted pay rates. Wait until the next economic crisis to see how fast and far our 'contract' will fall if this is all the spine we can muster now.
06-17-2015, 07:43 AM
#9509
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by georgetg
Hey Professor,
Will I need to sign a release for the medical records for my wife or children when I call in sick for family members (California law) if I exceed 15 days sick?
Cheers
George
Will I need to sign a release for the medical records for my wife or children when I call in sick for family members (California law) if I exceed 15 days sick?
Cheers
George
We will get you one.
06-17-2015, 07:45 AM
#9510
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by flyallnite
Not exactly how it's written in the TA.
1) The medical release window could be anytime the DHS is unable to make a determination based on the information you've provided. Even if you haven't met the threshold. That's subjective, and totally up to them.
2) The release can then be expanded, again totally subjective and solely at the DHS discretion, to include an exam by a company picked doctor, and the Vice President of Flight Operations. No doctor will take the time to redact impertinent health information from the results of the written release. That includes social history, medications, health issues, and as soon as the FAA releases the new regs, your mental health records. Good luck getting any of that redacted.
Again, "or his designee" could be anyone. It most certainly could be a third party. I'm sorry, but "The company told us" is not a contractual obligation.
Most major corporations, S&P500 we're talking, use third party verification. Time Warner, AT&T, and so on. We are already using it for a large portion of our own employees. What in this TA prevents that from happening? The answer: Nothing. We agree to allow an unspecified 'designee' to evaluate our health and our sick leave usage.
1) The medical release window could be anytime the DHS is unable to make a determination based on the information you've provided. Even if you haven't met the threshold. That's subjective, and totally up to them.
2) The release can then be expanded, again totally subjective and solely at the DHS discretion, to include an exam by a company picked doctor, and the Vice President of Flight Operations. No doctor will take the time to redact impertinent health information from the results of the written release. That includes social history, medications, health issues, and as soon as the FAA releases the new regs, your mental health records. Good luck getting any of that redacted.
Again, "or his designee" could be anyone. It most certainly could be a third party. I'm sorry, but "The company told us" is not a contractual obligation.
Most major corporations, S&P500 we're talking, use third party verification. Time Warner, AT&T, and so on. We are already using it for a large portion of our own employees. What in this TA prevents that from happening? The answer: Nothing. We agree to allow an unspecified 'designee' to evaluate our health and our sick leave usage.
I do understand your concerns and I think they are valid, however I am telling you everything as both the Union and the company are translating this agreement.
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