UAL VICE CHAIRMAN on DAL TA (interesting..)
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Not that long ago pre-merger DL had what, like over 10,000 pilots? How many did NWA have? Yes a few at each were FE's but we have become fanacticaly more "productive" since then.
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Resting
Posts: 376
So now we are talking about profits and revenue, I thought we were talking about jobs.
If they can shift the profits, then doesn't that pretty much make this TA a no brainer? We shift profit sharing to fixed pay rates, if you say they can reduce profits with a pencil, then it makes tons of sense to take fixed pay rates. I thought the no crowd was touting the huge profits and so they get big profit sharing checks and so they don't care about pay rates. Could you guys at least keep your story straight?
You can spin this any way you want but in 2012 you same guys claimed the increased 76 seaters would destroy mainline jobs. Now you make the same claim. I've got 1,700 reasons as to why you are wrong. Block hours are up, pilots required are up, hiring has way outpaced attrition, new captains. Spin, spin, spin away, but facts are facts.
If they can shift the profits, then doesn't that pretty much make this TA a no brainer? We shift profit sharing to fixed pay rates, if you say they can reduce profits with a pencil, then it makes tons of sense to take fixed pay rates. I thought the no crowd was touting the huge profits and so they get big profit sharing checks and so they don't care about pay rates. Could you guys at least keep your story straight?
You can spin this any way you want but in 2012 you same guys claimed the increased 76 seaters would destroy mainline jobs. Now you make the same claim. I've got 1,700 reasons as to why you are wrong. Block hours are up, pilots required are up, hiring has way outpaced attrition, new captains. Spin, spin, spin away, but facts are facts.
A) Fill that void indefinitely with their only available option at the Regionals -50 seaters.
Or
B) Bring a fleet to mainline to perform the segment of the flying now done by 100 new 76 seaters.
Everyone knows that the 50 seat option was dead. We would probably already have E-190 at Delta if we had stopped the 76 seat growth in C2012. Clearly the 717 were coming anyways. The fact that we have hired to staff the 717 has no correlation to allowing the company an additional 100 76 seaters. Unless, of course, you believe Delta would have passed on the deal of the decade by not leasing those B-717. Which, in that case, you might want to start listening to quarterly conference calls to understand how this company works.
#53
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Please feel free to put me on IGNORE as I have put you.
Last edited by texavia; 07-06-2015 at 01:12 PM.
#54
There were plenty of keyboard warriors with mathmatical and spreadsheet models claiming exactly that during the vote for C2012. You dont remember the "FUD" "they'll just take delivery of all the 717s, get the numbers to work delivery ratio wise, then park every domestic mainline fleet instantly!!"? There was a great deal of bad math involved, but that drum was definitely being beaten.
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
The A330 sure seems to pay a lot more then the 767. The A350 will pay even more. Many of the 737's were picking up DC9 flying. We are taking back a big chunk of domestic DCI flying. Did you expect they would buy 777's for that? When they place the order to start retiring the mad dogs I suspect it will be a airframe that pays as well or better. My money is on the 737 max.
#56
Snake
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 242
Profit sharing takes just one bad quarter to vanish for the whole year. Pay concessions take a trip to bankruptcy court, plus an 1113 filing. That took three years last time before we got to LOA 46. Hard rates compound over time, increase our share of the profit sharing pie as a hedge versus dilution among a larger pool of employees, and are subject to negotiation, while variable compensation follows the whim of the market.
The TA rates pay more than 2004 rates, and the whole thing beats the CPI dating back to 1991.
"Cube rat?" You can surely do better than that. If you can't win on the terms, you attack the person.
#57
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Well bless your heart, you just asked the stupidest question ever posed on APC. Congratulations.
Profit sharing takes just one bad quarter to vanish for the whole year. Pay concessions take a trip to bankruptcy court, plus an 1113 filing. That took three years last time before we got to LOA 46. Hard rates compound over time, increase our share of the profit sharing pie as a hedge versus dilution among a larger pool of employees, and are subject to negotiation, while variable compensation follows the whim of the market.
The TA rates pay more than 2004 rates, and the whole thing beats the CPI dating back to 1991.
"Cube rat?" You can surely do better than that. If you can't win on the terms, you attack the person.
Profit sharing takes just one bad quarter to vanish for the whole year. Pay concessions take a trip to bankruptcy court, plus an 1113 filing. That took three years last time before we got to LOA 46. Hard rates compound over time, increase our share of the profit sharing pie as a hedge versus dilution among a larger pool of employees, and are subject to negotiation, while variable compensation follows the whim of the market.
The TA rates pay more than 2004 rates, and the whole thing beats the CPI dating back to 1991.
"Cube rat?" You can surely do better than that. If you can't win on the terms, you attack the person.
You're real good at parroting sailingfun though, I have to admit.
One more thing - don't lecture me on airline bankruptcy, been there, done that, 3 damn times.
#58
Well bless your heart, you just asked the stupidest question ever posed on APC. Congratulations.
Profit sharing takes just one bad quarter to vanish for the whole year. Pay concessions take a trip to bankruptcy court, plus an 1113 filing. That took three years last time before we got to LOA 46. Hard rates compound over time, increase our share of the profit sharing pie as a hedge versus dilution among a larger pool of employees, and are subject to negotiation, while variable compensation follows the whim of the market.
The TA rates pay more than 2004 rates, and the whole thing beats the CPI dating back to 1991.
"Cube rat?" You can surely do better than that. If you can't win on the terms, you attack the person.
Profit sharing takes just one bad quarter to vanish for the whole year. Pay concessions take a trip to bankruptcy court, plus an 1113 filing. That took three years last time before we got to LOA 46. Hard rates compound over time, increase our share of the profit sharing pie as a hedge versus dilution among a larger pool of employees, and are subject to negotiation, while variable compensation follows the whim of the market.
The TA rates pay more than 2004 rates, and the whole thing beats the CPI dating back to 1991.
"Cube rat?" You can surely do better than that. If you can't win on the terms, you attack the person.
IT'S NOT ABOUT PAY! It's about the MASSIVE concessions.
#59
When United is negotiating their next contract, about the same time we will be BTW:
777A DAL $330.03 UAL $278.36 18.6%
330A DAL $311.74 UAL $278.36 12%
7ERA DAL $276.24 UAL $ 232.15 19%
739/321 DAL $266.28 UAL $224.04 18%
A DAL 717 will pay more than a wide-body at UAL:
DAL 717A $238.36 UAL 7ERA $232.15
777A DAL $330.03 UAL $278.36 18.6%
330A DAL $311.74 UAL $278.36 12%
7ERA DAL $276.24 UAL $ 232.15 19%
739/321 DAL $266.28 UAL $224.04 18%
A DAL 717 will pay more than a wide-body at UAL:
DAL 717A $238.36 UAL 7ERA $232.15
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
I don't have time to post the tables but will will exceed American's rates on every aircraft type. The average is 3.5% higher on 1 JAN 16. If we believe the forum we will also see profits that will generate at least 14% more in PS for a total of 17.5% more then American.
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