Interesting perspective. The real majority just spoke. Those of us labeled angry and emotional miscreants turned out to be the majority. The minority who happen to hold leadership positions said there is no more left to get and no plan B. Their opinion is the clear minority now.

So the question is: If they continue in those leadership positions...who is doing the dividing sailingfun?

Carl

 

Carl, did you call for the replacement of the no voters after contract 2012?

 

sailing-
You can't possibly believe that we can move forward without major changes in the MEC leadership.

I am NOT in favor of the DPA, but -
If the Moakists don't relinquish power then that is exactly what we are going to get.

ALPA's future on this property is in extreme peril right now.
Buzz Hazzard's missive is a very ominous signal.
This could get real ugly if the old power structure tries to hang on.

65-35 can not be ignored. NOBODY expected a repudiation of that magnitude.

 

No, because they were not in leadership positions. If that NO on C2012 opinion had also been running the MEC administration, then I would have called for their resignations...even though I agreed with their opinion. Why? Because leaders can't hold a minority opinion in a bottom-up democracy.

Appreciate how quickly you parrot this MEC administration talking point however.

Carl

 

I don't believe DPA is the answer but I don't know who to trust right now. ALPA tells the Wall Street Journal that the pilots voted down Big Pay Raises. How much worse could they have portrayed us? DALPA is making us look like quite the greedy bunch. Very upset with this press release.

 

+1

I voted no also, fine with the pay rates, not excited about PS but also do not have unrealistic expectations 15/8/8/8 rates etc...

My serious disappointments were in the JV language (company is not in compliance losing grievance) but ALPA negotiating TA to allow JV relief. Sick policy changes etc...

PLUS I was so disgusted with the ALPA sell job, the bold print "encourage you to vote in favor blah blah blah" at the end of every notepad. Listening to the discussions at the table in ATL crew lounge was nauseating, seemed they were trying so desperately to "spin" sell everything.

"Look... we still aren't as bad off as American, UAL " leapfrogging down !

No hurry, let's get it worked out !

 

I was about to defend Sailing with the thought that maybe you had misinterpreted his post, but then I saw his reply.

I thought the group Sailing was referring to as "dividing us" was the leadership that used all the spin it could muster to get this TA over 50.01% Apparently I was wrong.

But that's the group that I am concerned about right now. If the MEC Chairman was willing to use scare tactics, shut down fellow pilots in crew lounges just for sharing outher LEC literature, spin, cut short the 60 day period, spin, etc. etc, .... well, I'm sorry, but I don't trust a man who's ego (and personal gain?) pushed him to put the interests of the pilot force second to anything else. He has shown that with all the data, surveys, communication assets, staff, money, and resources he would not listen to the will of the pilot group, and even then failed at getting his top priority accomplished--he failed himself; he failed the company, and most importantly he failed us. Why has he not stepped down? Ego and objectives that run counter to the pilot group desires will not magically vanish overnight--he can not be trusted and must go.

 

Sailing,

Did the C2012 "no voters" misrepresent what was and wasn't in the TA after sending it out without recommendation?

I flew with a "yes voter" who switched to "no" the day before the vote closed, because of a Fed Ex Paper written by the DPA.

I'll repeat it again: A "YES VOTER" SEARCHING FOR, READING, AND BELIEVING DPA STUFF A DAY BEFORE THE VOTE CLOSED, CHANGED HIS VOTE, BECAUSE OF THE DPA.

How does that happen?

Because, by the end of the campaign, the side you seem to be protecting had NO credibility. ZERO. NONE.

There was nothing tin that TA that the membership wanted in a bad way.


What are they going to come out and say after their 7/21 meeting? "We will send out another survey to see what the membership wants?"

Yeah, right.

They won't suddenly regain credibility, because the vote is over. Once it's gone, it's gone.

They have got to go and you know it.

Why wait until the 21st? They should resign tomorrow.

 

I frankly do not trust the individuals and administration that produced this ta and sent it out for memrat to continue in any capacity representing us.

At a minimum their judgment is defective. At the extreme, and in light of the hostile attitude to the membership...I would not put it past them to enable an even more unacceptable outcome...all to be able to say "We told you so".

 

I don't think you need to worry.
The current regime will not be negotiating any more TAs.
If they tried that, ALPA would be toast.

I imagine ALPA National and the AFL-CIO are explaining that to them right now.

Give it a few days. We're going to see a lot of resignations.