That is the age old question. In ATL, a pilot base of 4000+, a typical quarterly LEC meeting (during non-contract times) brings out about 25-40 pilots. Yes that is less than 1%. Half of those are usually committee guys that also happen to be 44 members.

You have isolated the problem, which is apathy. Imagine if 65% of the pilot group were this engaged on a regular basis.

Btw, the negotiators are appointed by the MEC. There is no general election process to speak of. Candidates are nominated by reps and then, the MEC as whole, votes on the candidates.

 

I don't have a problem with all the communications. Even if it was "one sided". It just meant we were all very well informed and had all the facts about this crappy TA.

I wrote each of my reps, and they wrote back. It was a two way communication and in the end we agreed to disagree. I made several suggestions that were premature to discuss at the time, but aren't now!

Look, you are not going to get most pilots to show up at LEC meetings or write their reps. They have busy lives. Any union we have will be like that.

 

That is absolutely NOT the problem. That is what unionoids like you have always tried to preach, but this TA execution should finally show even you how demonstrably stupid that thesis is. Those 11 YES voting reps knew damn well they were voting against their constituents, but they thought they could cram it down. Now they'll lose their seats over it.

A higher meeting participation rate might have scared low integrity reps from exercising their low integrity, but participation rates are unnecessary with high integrity reps. The problem is NOT apathy. The problem IS reps and union officials MAINTAINING their integrity.

Carl

 

People have their reasons and maybe some of it is apathy, but I do believe that its more centered around family and other personal commitments. Its a daunting challenge to keep everyone engaged.

Yes the current process of selecting the NC is good. I was referring to the original post calling for the NC to be elected positions.

 

I don't get you. You claimed that things were broken in 2012 when it passed. Now when it fails it's broken again? It worked as intended. The pilots decided it wasn't good enough and it was rejected.

What is your problem with democracy? I voted for the TA but have immense respect for the majority will of the pilot group and will support our collective effort moving forward. There is no taking my ball and going home.

Your agenda is to replace Alpa at all costs. Nothing will be good enough. We get that.

 

The system has been broken for a lot longer than this contract negotiation.

 

Life long ALPA apologists rarely do.

I didn't say "things" were broken. I said our process was purposely violated when that C2012 negotiating committee signed a TA that was explicitly against the direction given to them by our reps. That's unarguable.

Are you talking about "things" again? This administration again purposely violated our process by signing a TA that again went against rep direction. That is also unarguable. The difference THIS time is that the members had seen this movie before and decided on a different ending. You admin types are now shell shocked. I get it. Hopefully you'll be enjoying line pilot status very soon.

Line pilots rejecting your insulting TA is proof of how you didn't follow our system. The last line of defense had to be used because you guys refused to do what's right.

I'm a strong proponent of it. You despise it. Hopefully you'll be out of our democratic union soon.

BS. You'll do everything possible to hang on to your little admin job. You're a Moak disciple through and through. If you're kept on, you'll Kingsley Roberts anyone you can.

You get nothing. That's why you never saw this coming. Too much time in the echo chamber. We're about to take our union back from the likes of you. Deal with it.

Carl

 

Back to the condescension and insults.

I am a line pilot, not an "admin type", nor do I have an admin job to "hang on to". You must be from the Purple Drank school of guessing ID's/smearing/making **** up.

Further, I worked directly for King and had nothing to do with his recall. I've met Lee Moak a handful of times but would hardly say I know him well enough to be one of his "disciples." Try again.

Back to the topic, you go on and on about how all it takes is integrity for a rep to serve well. Coming to a different conclusion is not a lack of integrity. What they do from this point will distinguish those that truly desire to serve the pilots. I don't really GAS if you guys have your witch hunt or not, but to me it would be more productive and intelligent to see how everyone involved reacts over the next few days.

If they embrace the fact that a large majority of Delta pilots voted it down and move forward productively then it doesn't serve any of us to disrupt that just to satisfy your bloodlust. Now if they thumb their nose at the majority, I would agree that you have a point.

See you on the line

 

I think it is important to look at our unions top leaders and see where their motivation lies. Did this failed TA get pushed on us because it was best for us pilots or was it best for the guys pushing so hard? Perhaps being a Delta Line pilot is not the career path they have in mind. Is getting to ALPA National with all the $$ and retirement reason enough to hammer down the QOL issues that us line jocks face every month. As I sit in my hotel room for an 11 hour lay over that just followed a 10 hour layover that started at 0130, I look at my suitcase and realize all I have packed for this 4 day trip is 2 uniform shirts and a pair of pajamas. Yep, you guessed it, I am not a trip 7 captain, but I will have 13 legs this rotation. I am worth more than what was being pushed at me. I want union leadership that has my best interests, my family's best interests in mind when they represent us line pilots. I think it's house cleaning time!!

 

That seems to be a common problem with DALPA insiders and supporters. This TA was the result of contempt for and dismissal of line pilot concerns, which is exactly what DALPA insiders and supporters do. I'm sure they consider the surveys to be a joke, just as you consider most of these posts to be jokes. That's why the current DALPA cabal has to go.

Is the system designed to use large quantities of dues money in an attempt to browbeat the pilot group into approving a grossly inadequate TA? How interesting.

That sounds like something Delta management would do. Not something an actual Union would do.

I can understand why you might think the system isn't broken. I'm quite sure that up until the TA rejection, Delta management did not think it was broken. And all of the DALPA insiders and supporters did not think it was broken.

The rest of us who fly the line have a different opinion.