I see that your sole Posting activity has been in this thread. That raises suspicion that perhaps your purposes here is to lower expectations. So you've got that going against you.
That being said, I am able or even interested in providing numbers that will get the pilot group to YES. You mention the 8% lost since July and its compounding effects on DPSP. I submit there is more to it than just numbers.
I will offer this anecdote for your consideration:
While on first year pay at DAL, I basically broke even at my Guard job. Year 2 pay at Delta is far higher for me than what my Guard gig pays. So pure financial logic would dictate that I should seek promotion to lessen the financial hit I take every time I take mil leave to stay current and useful in my role and service to
Our country. That promotion would get me about an 8% raise.

But there is more to this promotion/raise. In order to get my paperwork together, I'd have to chase down signatures from folks who are difficult to track down. My physical fitness test and OPR would have to be current within 6 months. As luck would have it, my OPR & PT cycle do not coincide. So I'd have to do them again. Long story short, I'd have to conduct a major phallic dance in order to secure promotion and an 8% raise. This is not worth my time. Maybe it would be to some, but it is not for me.

The above is not a hypothetical. I also believe that the situation correlates to the circumstances of our negotiations at DAL. So when you seek concrete numbers, consider the phallic dances or posterior pains that come along with those numbers. Sometimes they are worth it, sometimes not.

*forgive the typos. This was composed on my phone in between beers and highly competitive ping pong matches with my college buds on our kitchen pass weekend.

I've been putting them up for months now. See below.

No more posts by the new troll! Must have gotten what he was trolling for!

Here's the bottom line.... Nothing, I mean nothing should be worse in the new TA. Not sick, not pay, etc.. PERIOD!!!

Let's not use that POS as a benchmark.

If we settle for bargaining up from it, we will leave money on the table. Again.

I actually just come with an open mind.

I got Plan A, TA2015 vs Plan B, C2012. Compare the two.

If Plan A had been better, if voted for plan A.

But unfortunately, Plan A looked like a Tweet spinning into the ground, inverted, with the pilots going full forward on the stick then full aft and stepping on same direction rudder.





Like what I did there guys? I'm getting this. Straight wing Cessna training pilots unite!!!! :D :D :D

What's more impressive having to fight your way out of a spin or fight to hold yourself in one? I spun a piper tomahawk once. I looked out the back and watched the tail flex in three different directions at the same time. I recovered. Did I mention I did that once? Never again, ever!

You are safe, all Tweets are cans containing tuna..

I say, FINALLY guys posting real numbers! There have been way too many "not good enough's" and "restoration" . 20% DOS had a good ring and leave sick leave alone!

Why are there no more little faces?

Man I get sick of the smart remarks...I NEVER indicated I want to give up profit sharing, anywhere here. I am fully aware of losing my pension as well. I was saying apples to apples is difficult because we had different items in both deals...

I hope you're not negotiating for us...

I'm guessing you're negotiating against us. Just trying to figure out what you need to get the magic 51 percent to vote yes.

Read the entire thread to see what the pilots demand as fair compensation.

Perceptive is young Skywalker...I am management.


YGBSM

During contract negotiations, the forum resembles a Tweet ride -- lots of spinning and some unusual attitudes. :D

...and leave profit sharing alone, and leave FO seniority alone, and leave ALV alone, and leave scope alone, and any other concession you may come up with.

But that's not the answer you want because that sounds to much like RESTORATION.

I guess we are hiring children now. It was a simple question about what the average guy actually wants to see. I have never seen people read so much into a simple question. ALPA doesn't think it's owners are entitled to see survey our results even after the fact. Plus we couldn't possibly have ruined ALPA's strategy by "tipping our hand" I mean look where their "strategy" has left us currently...

You are asking everybody for their numbers......how about providing them with yours.....

Denny

He must only post when drunk. Just like curly.

Actually, you haven't "lost" anything because that $8k plus 401(k) contributions were never "yours" to begin with. It only becomes yours when the majority of your fellow pilots accept the contractual offer put forth by the company.

Uh. Wow! That's all small change. Look at the demographics of the pilot group. Something to replace age 60 (or 65) 60% FAE would be real dollars. A thousand percent raise would still fall far short for the Dead Zoners but if restored would truly make RA a hero. He is a smart businessman but he also has a strong desire to do the right thing. I really believe a solution as possible.

Disagree 1000%.

He will do what's best for the shareholders (and he is a major shareholder) and what the BoD permits him to do.

He is NOT our friend. He may be less of a jerk than many CEOs, but if he could find a way to get us to work for free, he would do it in a heartbeat.

...As I would expect any CEO to do...Now if ONLY we had a UNION that went to bat for us and didn't domicile with him!

If RA had a strong desire to do the right thing he would rescue the retired Delta pilots from the travesty that happened to their retirement.

If he would do the right thing that would be honor the spirit and intent of the contract not try to circumvent it the hold down pay rates. As it is now he did exactly the opposite. He gave raises that were timed to exclude us.

My guess the company won't budge an inch on their last position. For a bunch of reasons. It will take a show of force to move the mountain.

Yep. My guess is, their opener will be worse tha NA15. They will try to break us. They may peel some guys off, but I think most of us realize now is the time to take a stand.

Start saving.

Hopefully the moment management drops a crap deal, Malone and the MEC will spin up the strike committee and start informational picketing.

Ok. Well 65% will be wicked low compared to the next no vote then. And we will also have a different union. And there will only be a few backpacks, and they will all be in Atlanta.

Full disclosure: I told phone polling I would strike for all of the issues they asked me about.

I don't think the company will do that.


That would be negotiating in bad faith and it would be our negotiators duty to walk away from the table.

Thank you, you are my newest, favorist person.:)

I'm with you.

But, serious question, didn't we already agree to mediation in March?

The last stab by the Moakolytists.

Why do you INSIST upon using ALL CAPS in every other sentence to make your POINT?

It's ANNOYING.

I believe you are correct. Joint petitioning in March.

So, the role of the negotiating committee is to avoid all concessions and argue for pay raises.

They can use 3B4 (since the company already agreed to it) as the baseline and add the non contract pay raise to that. File the civil suit first (forget the toothless grievance).

They also need to make the argument that profit sharing should be left out of the calculus, balanced against the annuitized value of Americans frozen retirement, or whatever keeps it off the table.

Sick leave and work rules will be status quo. There's zero compelling argument to pattern those down.

There should be a viable argument for an annuity in the individual pilots name (to avoid any loss) due to profitability and the shaky ground the pbgc is on. 2.5% accrual per year based on pilot earnings that year 100% funded starting in 2016. Averts any danger of loss.

Daily pay rate for everything (vac, trng, etc.) and accrual matches fedex since our profits were 2x theirs.

Anything else.

Btw, this is not my dream list. This seems readily achievable to me through mediation. My dream list is restoration plus...achievable by a job action. But, we already agreed to mediation.

...Which means there won't be any "job action" for five years minimum. That is why talk of a strike, different union, "restoration plus" and all is so hilarious. The process is stacked against us, and RA knows it. All the orange "swag" in the world won't change that any more than it changes the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.

Agreed. So, the job becomes petitioning the Strategic PC with factual arguments to carry forward.

As I said before, the last stab of the Moakolyteists.

Doesn't this kind of make phone polling and trolling for concessions moot?

Probably. I think we will eventually get a good TA without some of the too-objectionable stuff the rejected one had. I just think that talk of a strike or DPA representation that will bring a miraculous agreement that dwarfs all others just is not realistic.

Some of the too-objectionable stuff?

How about none of the too-objectionable stuff?

With profits at current levels and half the industry (not including some regionals who have better work rules) having better work rules, I can't see patterning down.

There's undoubtedly some emotion floating around.

However, if we cannot take back DALPA, can you make a truly coherent argument that doesn't make DPA at least an equal choice? It becomes kind of, aw what the heck, it's worth a try since what we have isn't working.

The strike talk is because some folks forgot about the march mediation agreement.

For those speculating on the benevolent nature of management keep in mind we just went to the mat with them over violating the pwa scope language.

for which we got a participation trophy. And agreed to not question their behavior for the foreseeable future.

Managements job is to paint outside the corners of our pwa at EVERY opportunity.

Of course they never expected to pay the Ps. Just like they never intended to pay the pension.

As to being placed at a disadvantage in this process by the CBA that costs us $50 million a year......I believe a representation vote that installs a new CBA triggers a timeline to open the pwa for renegotiation.

Alpa has sown the seeds of their own richly deserved demise.