Same type IIRC

You folks who are smarter than me on scope (i.e., EVERYBODY), riddle me this: JG said during the last base visit in ATL that the scope language had to change in order to get the E190s on property. But scope has not changed...so what gives?
Methinks me knows the answer.

My $ .02

The 190 rates will be pretty close to the 717 rates.

The base and trips will determine how junior/senior it goes.

Except the fact that the 14 hour rule our union gave away to cover open time has killed whiteslips and greenslips. And to think those guys agreed to that and got nothing. Idiots.

No. The scope language requires it to be at mainline.

Basically all flying must be done by Delta pilots... with exceptions. X number of 50-76 seaters can be outsourced. X amount of flying can be done by other carriers via codeshares and JVs.

Now if they meant in order for the company to order the E190 then we had to change our scope clause to allow more outsourced flying then that's just a flat out negotiation tactic and that was blown out of the water earlier in the week.

MCO and DFW bases would be so senior nobody on the seniority list could hold it.

I'm pretty sure I would be the junior reserve...03/22/65.

A lot of this sentiment on this thread in particular seems manufactured by a select few individuals who are for their own reasons trying to feel better about themselves. I am a civilian former turboprop and RJ driver who has been treated with nothing but respect by everyone I have encountered so far at DAL. If you bring good piloting and a respectful attitude to the cockpit you will be respected here. There is no mainline conspiracy by the white male military fighter pilot mafia to marginalize the regional pilots - much of that discussion here seems to have resulted from people who took comments out of context and/or failed to read and comprehend the entire thread.

The military/civilian, North/South, Junior/Senior, disputes are entirely an internet induced "problem." That is to say there is no "problem." As with any group of 12,000+ people there are differences and opinions. The politics, religion and sex (taboo topics of polite conversation) have been some of the most interesting and entertaining debates I have had, and after every one of them we all went to work and got the job done. The respect and professionalism of this group of coworkers is tremendous. I enjoy our diversity and think it makes the group stronger.

Trying to work the word tremendous into my vocabulary. Trump is entertaining also.

Oops, what did I start now?

You do realize that most of the RJ-insulting posts on this thread were made by other RJ pilots, who were (I believe) attempting to be sarcastic, don't you? BTW, I always tip my (mandatory) hat to RJ pilots when I see them, and I call the four-stripers "Captain". :)

Disagree. Even though the "north/south" occurred in this very digital age, the rest of which you mentioned all happened before the fancy fangled interwebz.

It's simple pilot douche baggery.

There's always been mil vs civ douche baggery , there's always been senior/junior douche baggery, the proliferation of the RJ's caused pilot douche baggery, giving away scope in exchange for a big paycheck and then being mad because the RJ "took our yerbs!!!" douche baggery, whatever.

Carr, are you a Delta pilot?

I'm the morning/afternoon DJ at The Cheeta. I'm not tier 1 material (yet) to get the coveted evening shift.

Are you always a grumpy guy or an alter ego sign in for someone else?

Great post. On my last trip we had an RJ pilot on the jumpstart to LAX. I saw him waiting for a bus and ended up giving him a ride to his crash-pad. Just common courtesy. I bet he does not think all DAL Pilots are Double Breasted DBs.

Scoop

I just happened to get a Skywest hiring pop-up and noted their hiring requirements. Another source of military vs. civilian douche baggery perpetuation. Evidently they view military pilots as the better candidates for flying airliners. Out of four requirement tiers, military guys are good to apply with 750 hours. Civilians need 1000, 1250 or 1500 depending on other factors. Military superiority complex is alive and well at one of our Delta Connection partners.

The regional rate reset happens at the end of this month so that could shake things up bit.

It was an extremely long day... So I may have missed the sarcasm.

Sorry. Otherwise, I could say the RJ/Mill/Civilians crap could be Internet only drivel. The line flying had been wonderful. Haven't had an issue with one other guy on the line in two years. So cheers to that.

RAHlifer makes a comment and uses the word punks to describe regional pilots. I decide to reply in kind to what I thought was a DAL pilot by saying that the 190s would be flown by a delta ********. Then I reread his post and realize it was an RAH lifer, as in a republic airways holding lifer. A lifer at a regional. Now I see the sarcasm and changed my post, slightlly.

I'm probably getting trolled here but oh well... You know those are the Restricted ATP hour minimums and not generated by Sky West right? So you can blame the FAA for their superiority complex.

The point is all these arguments are always in the background. The internet is where the rude disrespect and condescension comes out, not the cockpit. This group of pilots knows how to disagree and still run a professional respectful flight deck. I have never been a part of a crew that couldn't set aside differences of opinion and fly the jet safely and get the job done. Yeah, everyone has heard the story of that guy but it's folklore not the norm, or even a one off concern.

I would agree with your point, mostly.

But have you ever done JS work? Just as an example. Although the coworkers may be able to get along, that's NEVER stopped them from exercising douchebaggery towards a third party that's, say, on the JS ;). Sure, it doesn't happen that often or frequently, but IT DOES HAPPEN. And it's always interesting to get the sides of the story, when you can anyway.

Doesn't matter if it's online or offline, a junior/senior rant, a mil civ/you don't deserve the job rant, "you took our yerbs!!!!!", whatever.

Yeah, it's in "the background", but NEVER underestimate pilot's ability to behave like complete children. It really knows no bounds or limits sad to say.

The internetz has simply taken it a whole different direction.

I don't remember the AOL chat room/message board of old being nearly as bad, but then again, that was ages ago.

Ok, I'll agree. Any group the size of the Delta pilots 12,000+ (or the profession as a whole 70,000ish) is bound to have a hand full of DBs that feel it's their right and duty to rant. I haven't seen it impact the operation. Maybe an excuse not to eat dinner but that's it. The internet anonymity emboldens a few but I guess I'm just good at ignoring it. They are easy to spot and only embarrass themselves.

I wasn't flaming you. And yeah, it's rare. But you are correct, when a pilot group is big, naturally by the simple law of averages you have more problems. Doesn't really matter if it's Uber Airline A, or Uber airline B, or Uber airline C now that the legacies are all Uber.

But on the whole, the specific stuff I mention (that actually filterd down) ISN'T common, but it does happen. Maybe 1-2 a month system wide that are simply inter-pilot and NOT pilot to gate agent problems, etc.

Although there have been times where that average spiked, weirdly enough it can coincide with certain things. Like, I don't know, a BK, a merger, JUST talk of a merger, an SLI, a TA ;)

Flame on. I can handle the heat. Law of averages says even gate agents, ramp agents, other airline pilots, doctors, lawyers and even airline managers can be DBs on the internet. (or in real life) :eek:

I still think this group is professional enough to get the job done regardless of the diversity. If you are on the jumpseat, just suck it up and get where you are going. It is still basically hitch hiking no matter how routine it may be, and yes I have been a commuter in both senses of the word. I flew for a regional and have lived out of base. :cool: Been there. YMMV

That was NEVER in doubt, nor the point.

It's the extraneous douchebaggery that was being referenced.

EXACTLY.

But circling back, you'd be surprised that some while on the JS don't just shut up, suck it up, and keep their opinions to themselves whilst enjoying the benefit of the professional courtesy.

I don't doubt it. To paraphrase Mark Twain, "Some people prefer not to keep their mouth shut and have you suspect them being a fool, but would rather open their mouth and confirm it."

Scoop :)

I had no idea. Sorry. So the FAA considers military pilots better suited to fly airliners with a lessor number of hours than their civilian counterparts?

If you haven't been trained by both civilian and military sources then I suppose you're in no position to criticize the decision...


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Not quite. The minimums are based on what type of, if any formal flight training an individual has completed.

No formal flight training requires 1500 hours. Graduates of an Embry Riddle type civilian flight training program requires 1000 hours (I think) and graduates of a military flight training program requires 750 hours.

So it is not really a military vs. civilian issue, but weighted on what type of flight training you have completed.

Scoop

Yes they do and yes they should. I didn't want to feed your trolling appetite on your last post, but I will now. Having done both I can state factually that military training is much more intense with much higher standards. It's not about the people, it's about the program. There are dumbasses and quality folks in both mil and civ.

Like many others during this whole failed TA process, he spoke out of turn and is having to eat his words.

Trolling? I'm not sure how you got the wrong impression of who I am or my intentions.

I simply made an observation. Evidently a misinformed one. You provided an explanation. In turn, I made another observation. This diversion of topic was started by others (we started out talking about EMB 190s and who is "good enough" to fly them). I was pleased to see most folks putting the military/civilian issue to rest. Now to my regret, I mentioned something to the effect that even if we as pilots are "over it," evidently an air carrier is not (wherin I cited Skywest, and later the FAA).

You're awfully quick to jump on someone who made zero inflammatory comments. I appreciate your respectful correction regarding the FAA minimums. Not sure where you're coming from on this one.

dude are you for real?

how about "Military superiority complex is alive and well at one of our Delta Connection partners."

or " Another source of military vs. civilian douche baggery perpetuation. Evidently they view military pilots as the better candidates for flying airliners"

this is not a case of "I simply made an observation"
this is your opinion put out on a forum built from a bunch of dumbass pilots opinions and rebuttals.

everything in quotes is from your previous 2 posts fyi

thats where Im coming from

I think all of you suck regardless of where you're from.




Especially those of you who went to Florida State.



























:D

Imagine the dilemma if you learned to fly privately, went to the military, got out, flew corporate, then went to the regionals. More personalities than Sybil.

Every second that goes by makes the TA pushers look more ignorant.

We are very fortunate to have had some common sense oriented tech savvy pilots.

How did you ever make it past HR with a resume like that 😜

The military trains to a mission standard, civilian trains to an economic standard because the expense is borne by the individual.

The value of this assumes that all military training directly correlates with the airline world

I was trying to be conciliatory. Apparently that does't work for you. Never mind. My "thanks" for your initial correction is withdrawn.