Speculation game: UAL TA & effect on DAL TA2
01-23-2016, 05:48 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by Flamer
Tell your management buddies I think that sounds just fine. Good day.
01-23-2016, 06:09 AM
#32
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Originally Posted by Maddogflier
If you don't know the simple things I have posted how on earth will you be able to even vote on a new contract. The numbers I posted came from the Chairmans letter just sent out to all pilots. Pay rates and how PS works at both airlines has been beat to death on the forums. My point is the UAL TA does little for us. I would disagree with the JM letter on that point.
We will certainly know a lot more on 29 Jan however rumor is the company is going to stall till March and then file for mediation per the contract.
We will certainly know a lot more on 29 Jan however rumor is the company is going to stall till March and then file for mediation per the contract.
01-23-2016, 06:10 AM
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Timbo
If our pilots are averaging 90 hours today under PBS, instead of only 75 under LOT bidding, that's a 20% productivity increase.
And being able to sell back 100% of your vacation by picking up the full amount of your 'vacation' as a white slip on the PCS runs is really killing advancement.
Think about 13,000 pilots all going on vacation, instead of picking up all that open time.
I think that might require a few more upgrades, especially into the highest paying, most senior categories, where the pilots have the most weeks of vacation.
And being able to sell back 100% of your vacation by picking up the full amount of your 'vacation' as a white slip on the PCS runs is really killing advancement.
Think about 13,000 pilots all going on vacation, instead of picking up all that open time.
I think that might require a few more upgrades, especially into the highest paying, most senior categories, where the pilots have the most weeks of vacation.
Lots of changes since 07 that have gained back some of what we lost. As a example the trip I prefer used to pay 11:30. Now it pays 15:45 for the same block hours.
If we could change vacation back to pay and credit I suspect it would create 300 to 400 plus Captains jobs overnight. Sadly however I am in the minority on that issue. I spoke to several reps about it and they said it was not even a blip on the contract surveys. Sometimes we are very shortsighted as a group.
01-23-2016, 06:52 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
Originally Posted by Maddogflier
If you don't know the simple things I have posted how on earth will you be able to even vote on a new contract. The numbers I posted came from the Chairmans letter just sent out to all pilots. Pay rates and how PS works at both airlines has been beat to death on the forums. My point is the UAL TA does little for us. I would disagree with the JM letter on that point.
We will certainly know a lot more on 29 Jan however rumor is the company is going to stall till March and then file for mediation per the contract.
We will certainly know a lot more on 29 Jan however rumor is the company is going to stall till March and then file for mediation per the contract.
01-23-2016, 07:24 AM
#35
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Why did you switch profiles Sailingfun? I see Sailing stopped posting in Nov 2015 and Maddogflier joined in Dec 2015. The tone of both sets of posts is unmistakable.
01-23-2016, 07:40 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by Maddogflier
Vacation changes and cap changes were far bigger then PBS. We were 25% more productive in 2007 then 2001. Probably about 10% more productive today.
Yes, you could still have had LOT with more efficiencies, and theoretically you could have PBS with touching trips, but the entire reason we went to PBS in the first place was to simultaneously embrace the more efficient model. PBS was by far a better venue to do it, etc etc.
So at best I only partially agree with your post. You seem to imply that we agreed to productivity concessions and PBS somehow came later. That is not the case at all. LOA 46 called for PBS to be implemented with all the work rule changes rolled in with it.
01-23-2016, 09:14 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,460
Originally Posted by Maddogflier
If you don't know the simple things I have posted how on earth will you be able to even vote on a new contract. The numbers I posted came from the Chairmans letter just sent out to all pilots. Pay rates and how PS works at both airlines has been beat to death on the forums. My point is the UAL TA does little for us. I would disagree with the JM letter on that point.
We will certainly know a lot more on 29 Jan however rumor is the company is going to stall till March and then file for mediation per the contract.
We will certainly know a lot more on 29 Jan however rumor is the company is going to stall till March and then file for mediation per the contract.
01-23-2016, 09:22 AM
#38
Weekend and Holiday Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Sippin' at the Troubadour
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
You skipped over the part where there were NO CONCESSIONS. It wasn't the pay from NA15 that we voted down, it was the concessions. United achieved NA15 pay rates without funding it through concessions in WB SCOPE, RJ SCOPE, profit sharing and sick leave.
01-23-2016, 09:35 AM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
The vacation and cap changes were impemented concurrent with and as part of the entire PBS "umbrella." I should know as I worked the call centers, taught classes, etc.
Yes, you could still have had LOT with more efficiencies, and theoretically you could have PBS with touching trips, but the entire reason we went to PBS in the first place was to simultaneously embrace the more efficient model. PBS was by far a better venue to do it, etc etc.
So at best I only partially agree with your post. You seem to imply that we agreed to productivity concessions and PBS somehow came later. That is not the case at all. LOA 46 called for PBS to be implemented with all the work rule changes rolled in with it.
Yes, you could still have had LOT with more efficiencies, and theoretically you could have PBS with touching trips, but the entire reason we went to PBS in the first place was to simultaneously embrace the more efficient model. PBS was by far a better venue to do it, etc etc.
So at best I only partially agree with your post. You seem to imply that we agreed to productivity concessions and PBS somehow came later. That is not the case at all. LOA 46 called for PBS to be implemented with all the work rule changes rolled in with it.
01-23-2016, 09:37 AM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Gunfighter
You skipped over the part where there were NO CONCESSIONS. It wasn't the pay from NA15 that we voted down, it was the concessions. United achieved NA15 pay rates without funding it through concessions in WB SCOPE, RJ SCOPE, profit sharing and sick leave.
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