Mantooth and ERflier
08-11-2016 | 11:18 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
^This TRUMPS any claim by appeasers/apologists that they 'know' how the 'to date proposals' impact the dal pilot. They're starting point is 'agreed to language' from a trustworthy negotiating entity... false assumption. In their defense, it seems the NC and admin are making the same assumption.
How many times have we been left holding the bag because of lies, deceit? How has that JV settlement check trade for seat progression treating you? Seat progression for a couple weeks of groceries? A pennies on the dollar WIN for dal mgt. And we said "duh, ok"... you can't make this stuff up.
Do these folks really think that the management carve out of the dal pilot profit sharing is some simple, loophole free clause? If so, why did the strategy evolve from stripping value by cutting the thresholds, to sympathy pleas to share the non-contract pain, to sketchy accounting changes to PTIX? You can tell management is not letting anything stop them, while we know how things work on our side by the outright lies sold to us in the 'Summer of '15'.
They want the money and they will take any avenue to get it. Dalpa is simply attempting to make it palatable for the dal pilot to stick it in the pilot working agreement.
At this point, the 'totality'(as these posters say) of any TA is secondary for me. If this NC and administration are not in this to WIN, they will lose... and more than they bargained for, imo.
How many times have we been left holding the bag because of lies, deceit? How has that JV settlement check trade for seat progression treating you? Seat progression for a couple weeks of groceries? A pennies on the dollar WIN for dal mgt. And we said "duh, ok"... you can't make this stuff up.
Do these folks really think that the management carve out of the dal pilot profit sharing is some simple, loophole free clause? If so, why did the strategy evolve from stripping value by cutting the thresholds, to sympathy pleas to share the non-contract pain, to sketchy accounting changes to PTIX? You can tell management is not letting anything stop them, while we know how things work on our side by the outright lies sold to us in the 'Summer of '15'.
They want the money and they will take any avenue to get it. Dalpa is simply attempting to make it palatable for the dal pilot to stick it in the pilot working agreement.
At this point, the 'totality'(as these posters say) of any TA is secondary for me. If this NC and administration are not in this to WIN, they will lose... and more than they bargained for, imo.
08-11-2016 | 06:01 PM
#32
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Define 'management'. If chief pilots are paid a bonus, does that not dilute the pool? And how many middle management employees will subsequently receive 'bonuses' in lieu of pay increases? PS is a big number, and a large percentage of revenue that is going to the employees. I am guessing that the hedge fund managers and big institutional investors are jumping on the CFO's desk about it. No. This loophole is too big, and it is a concession to profit sharing. It is too open ended for my taste.
08-12-2016 | 04:01 AM
#34
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,252
Likes: 95
From: DAL 330
This isn't true. The Management Incentive Plan and Equity Compensation is never a hidden undefined value. Just because you haven't taken the time to research the Annexes to the 10-K and find the info doesn't mean the documents don't exist. Don't be lazy. Ignoring information just because it doesn't fit in with your message is a path to failure.
As an edit to this post, this isn't a commentary on whether it should or should not be allowed to be excluded from the PTIX calculation (it should be retained as is IMO). I'm saying the comments about it being unlimited are wrong.
As an edit to this post, this isn't a commentary on whether it should or should not be allowed to be excluded from the PTIX calculation (it should be retained as is IMO). I'm saying the comments about it being unlimited are wrong.
How does knowing what past compensation was limit future compensation? Hint-it does not.
Additionally in the past management incentive compensation reduced company profitability - if this change were to be allowed management incentive compensation would no longer reduce the companies profitability but would reduce the employee PS.
So while the incentive plan may be currently defined - what is to prevent them from changing it in the future. Especially when it is coming from a different pot of money.
It would be very foolish of us to agree to this.
Scoop
08-12-2016 | 04:20 AM
#35
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
How does knowing what past compensation was limit future compensation? Hint-it does not.
Additionally in the past management incentive compensation reduced company profitability - if this change were to be allowed management incentive compensation would no longer reduce the companies profitability but would reduce the employee PS.
So while the incentive plan may be currently defined - what is to prevent them from changing it in the future. Especially when it is coming from a different pot of money.
It would be very foolish of us to agree to this.
Scoop
Additionally in the past management incentive compensation reduced company profitability - if this change were to be allowed management incentive compensation would no longer reduce the companies profitability but would reduce the employee PS.
So while the incentive plan may be currently defined - what is to prevent them from changing it in the future. Especially when it is coming from a different pot of money.
It would be very foolish of us to agree to this.
Scoop
Ideas?
08-12-2016 | 04:36 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
Define 'management'. If chief pilots are paid a bonus, does that not dilute the pool? And how many middle management employees will subsequently receive 'bonuses' in lieu of pay increases? PS is a big number, and a large percentage of revenue that is going to the employees. I am guessing that the hedge fund managers and big institutional investors are jumping on the CFO's desk about it. No. This loophole is too big, and it is a concession to profit sharing. It is too open ended for my taste.
08-12-2016 | 09:51 AM
#38
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
You're correct. Its the entire management pay package, including benefits; in cash, stock, perdiem, health, travel, vacations, if the company buys someone a house, etc. etc. etc. It is completely open ended.
08-12-2016 | 11:08 AM
#40
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Erflyer, my vote will cancel yours more than likely. So, maybe, just maybe you can quit the selling of substandard and explain to us why YOU are so willing to accept less.
