Ok, compared to my friends at UAL, DAL, and AA my QOL at UPS is equal or better, and FX has a better contract than we do so not sure where you're getting that belief. The majority of flying isn't domestic back side of the clock at either company, and correct me if I'm wrong but UAL and AA aren't exactly known for having stellar employee-management relations. Have you looked at the health benefits packages offered by FX & 5X? Retirement benefits? Vacation? Anyway, the OP is on the job hunt-just reminding him there are more options than just the big 3 and trying to offer accurate info at the same time.

 

"Majority" is a correct, but subtle, term. Your implication above is that it means "nearly all the flying" is at night, when the truth is that only about half of it is.

At FX, don't forget that the same jets that are hub-turning around a midnight sort in Memphis are also hub-turning in the morning and afternoon around a noon sort in Memphis.

Additionally, there are a good chunk of jets that are doing single-departure international globetrotting, too.

So, there are plenty of opportunities for pilots throughout the seniority list to *not* do back-side-of-the-clock flying, and a good number who have the seniority to do exclusively day flying.

 

We'll have to discuss this over a few adult beverages, stay frosty.

 

Let's talk about majority. Half of all flying is back side of the clock. OK if that's how you want to put it fine. I'll dig and find it somewhere, but if back side is flying between 1 and 4 AM body clock Legacy carriers have less than 5% of their flying in this time. When I fly Tokyo I fly 14 hours and land at 3AM. That's one of the worst. You guys sit around for half your career (15 years or more) waiting to take off at midnight. Worst yet Fed Ex starts trips all over their system so you have to dead head offline every where.

Your job is a nightmare. I NEVER EVER even considered working for a cargo carrier and I would NEVER EVER recommend that job to a newbie.

It'll never happen, but I'd love to see average age of death for cargo pilots.

 

FDX/UPS aren't for everybody.

That said, I normally bid reserve midnight-noon and average working 8 of 15 reserve days. Pick up two morning or afternoon turns on days off and make 87 hours of pay for 10 days worked in a 4 week pay period.

Yeah, that QOL blows.

I'm about 90% on my domestic fleet and am flying a 100% day line this bid, with every weekend off.

Yeah, that QOL blows too.

Of course living in domicile makes quality of life immeasurably better...I wouldn't have nearly that good QOL as a commuter, even one much more senior. And as I said, it ain't for everybody. Nights aren't "easy", but once you get accustomed to it, aren't THAT bad.

I would never fault somebody for not considering night express freight - a man's gotta know his limitations...but it ain't always as awful a gig as one might believe by reading the interwebs.

 

+1000

Precisely what I was thinking.

 

Sorry man, you just don't have an accurate understanding of Fx and UPS. At ups over 50% flying is international, day domestic is something like 15% leaving nite domestic around 30-35% at most. FedEx has an even greater percentage of day flying. We don't take off at midnight either. The sort runs between 2230-230am and you'll find that at those times the skies aren't filled with FX and UPS but with the 5% of pax carriers doing red eye transcons. Typical signin times for morning turns are between 2-3:30am. So bed at 1730, sleep by 1800, wake at 0100 = 7 hrs sleep; not bad at all. Doesn't take long to shift your clock ahead a little and no different than a west coast guy having a 6am dept out of LGA. Most of the guys doing the in and out of hub stuff at night prefer it for various reason and those pairings are really not much different than high speeds/momma trips you guys do, but yeah they can be rough if you can't manage solid sleep schedules. And all that DH'ing offline is on full Y fare tickets and enables many to have a stress free commute from anywhere they choose to live, keeping the miles and status privileges as well. I get it that you have a strong distaste for express cargo but for the benefit of those in the job search please try to put out unbiased and accurate info.

 

no matter the place of employment....the living in domicile thingy mentioned is huge. for money and qol.

 

You don't mention the seniority of you or your buddy. How senior is he on the 88....how senior are you on the 330?

I stand by what I said. If you want the best combo of money and QOL you have to be senior. And by senior I mean top 5% or so. Pretty much any category will do. The really senior guys on the 88 drop their trips, then put in white slips to pick up easy two day trips. One leg out, one leg back in the morning, 10:30 of pay. So yeah they may have worked two days on paper, but they didn't sign in til 1800 day one and were home before noon the next day. Add in the occasional greenslip and they are making great money and have a great QOL.

 

I would call being in the top 5% very senior. What percentage of pilot group can be in top 5% for any significant amount of time throughout their career? What can the other 95% expect to get ? ALV plus maybe an occasional green slip ?