How about ALV increase, VEBA, VB, pulling trips between every PCS run, management numbers from PTIX and loss of DC on PS? Are these all increases above book to you? And please do tell me where you came up with 28 percent in 3 years from? I've read the AIP's, and I've read the companies section 3 offer. Nowhere near that number. I saw 15.5/3/3.

Hey mods, isn't there an anti-spamming provision in these boards? When one poster repeats the exact same info, verbatim, time after time, it reeks of spamming. Please edit appropriately.

No inside info but I was working off an idea posted on here that 18,5,5 no changes to PS, full retro might be a number now.

I'll agree with you that the gives are something we shouldn't have to do. I'm just saying do we want to work ourselves in a frenzy over things that might not be a huge deal (VB can be cancelled) and end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

Far less than that when you factor in the unlimited management exclusions and DC loss on PS.

Exactly, these guys keep repeating themselves that concessions are necessary when 1 person gets paid by the company over $80 million in less than 7 months.

I rest my case. Mods, if you let these boards devolve into the cesspool known as chit chat, this will be one highlight.

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that we had reached any agreement on PTIX or PS.

We wouldn't be going off half-cocked, or anything, would we?

With respect to the OP, I'm not even asking for leadership. Results would be sufficient. If you have a term paper due, you turn it in for a grade. If you don't have it done, you don't burn the school and run out.

No one can prove it intil we see the flames in this case (since we can't see direction) but by all accounts the dispute is that the 12 threw their "work" in the trash, and left the building, leaving direction to start at square one.

We'll know soon enough if they've gotten us parked. One quote I've heard from a source is that we're "soft-parked". Forget last week: the 12 have been incapable of giving definitive guidance for about three weeks before that. So one source thinks we're just in denial about the fact we're already parked. Another source thinks we might be able to survive the status conference, and the 12 are coming to terms with what they've done.

Leadership is yet another step above the most basic minimum the 19 need to do: show their work. You're asking for a lot.

And you can keep repeating the same nonsense and it still isn't true.

One poster alluded to a 28% pay raise....well a 28% pay raise, even with no changes to profit sharing won't pass a pilot vote right now. A TA with that pay raise would get shot down, and when you consider sick leave, VB, etc....its only going to anger and frurther infuriate the pilot base. Those hourly pay rates for our 767s don't even come within a solar system of the UPS 767 hourly pay rates.

Before anyone chimes in....PAY RATES AND PROFIT SHARING ARE TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES.....DO NOT LUMP THEM IN TOGETHER