notEnuf

I'll second the get a real degree comment. A business degree is probably the best secondary education you can get.

Scoop

While UPS and FDX might not be in the same industry they do draw from the exact same labor pool.

If as many say, the ability of DAL to pay us a lot more does not matter (I agree with this BTW) why should being in the same industry matter more than drawing from the same pool of labor?

And if someone says because that is the way the NMB does it then I say we need to try to influence them that the market for Pilots is simply that - a market for Pilots. If one "industry" were substantially more profitable it might make sense. But with supply and demand being what it is the wages that UPS and FDX pay will directly affect what DAL will eventually have to pay.

As far as industry leading goes, I agree about the cherry picking and don't think being industry leading means we have to lead in every single category, but that overall when everything is taken into account it must be leading.

Scoop

notEnuf

I'd say your definition of industry leading is correct but add that it should be achieved without concessions. Industry leading with QOL regression is not industry leading in my book.

longcall

Exactly. The matter of educating the NMB is our NC's job. Why are they not doing that?

More importantly if both negotiating parties have stated publicly the opposite i.e. that UPS and FDX are our included in our peers, what does it matter if the NMB has a different opinion?

JamesBond

How do you know they aren't trying to educate them? Why is it that some people assume that since nothing is happening at a rapid pace that nothing is being done? The flip side is that if something happens quickly it is a "rush job".

However, if the NM has marching orders from King Obama then education might not be possible. Face it, when the .gov is involved, the cards are stacked against us as long as the RLA remains in place. You can disagree if you wish.

Piklepausepull

Yeah, it's sooooo much harder carrying boxes than people! In fact, I'd say our side deserves MORE because people are more precious than letters and boxes!

Next they'll claim SWA is a low cost carrier.......

Vincent Chase

Which begs the question...Have you seen any other type of government employee? (which is to say, she's NOT that smart. And she will not consider FedExExpress or UPS...and for that matter, probably not SWA or Allegiant either. She will likely just consider AA and UAL.)

Vincent Chase

I do not disagree here. That said, I, like many of the others you rail against here are out for QOL improvements. I would like QOL improvements (read: vacation) AND a pay bump putting us in the lead of AA and UAL (and FedEx and UPS, if that's not out of the realm of possibility in Linda's head.)
If our NC isn't beating the drums on pilots being drawn from the same pool, be it FedEx, UPS, SWA, UAL, etc, then they are failing us. Since I haven't been polled...EVER, I guess I don't even know if that's being asked.

JamesBond

I have never said I don't want QOL improvements. Never. Ever. But I do get tired of those of you that rail against those that are near the end and need the money because of lost retirements etc etc etc... See how this works? There are two sides, (actually multiple sides) and yours is certainly no more important than mine and vice versa, so it would be really nice if you would stop acting like it.

Seaslap8

Educate her about what? NMB doesn't consider FedEx and UPS simply because they don't compete with DL. It doesn't matter to the NMB if we are X% above (or below) them, what does matter is where our demands measure up against our competitors.