Scope notepad out
10-09-2016 | 03:43 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
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From: Dismayed
10-09-2016 | 04:07 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
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You negotiate immediate penalties for non compliance.
Management paper bids the air line as if the required positions existed and pay the harmed pilots each and every month until they are in compliance.
We brought them into compliance, the least they can do is not get out of compliance again.
This language is worthless.
Management paper bids the air line as if the required positions existed and pay the harmed pilots each and every month until they are in compliance.
We brought them into compliance, the least they can do is not get out of compliance again.
This language is worthless.
10-09-2016 | 05:02 PM
#43
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
You negotiate immediate penalties for non compliance.
Management paper bids the air line as if the required positions existed and pay the harmed pilots each and every month until they are in compliance.
We brought them into compliance, the least they can do is not get out of compliance again.
This language is worthless.
Management paper bids the air line as if the required positions existed and pay the harmed pilots each and every month until they are in compliance.
We brought them into compliance, the least they can do is not get out of compliance again.
This language is worthless.
But, it does get old after a while.
10-09-2016 | 05:07 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
I'm still a yes vote after reading this and this is why, we have 68 wide bodies on order - a good portion of those are not replacements (some of them are).
Those airplanes are going to have to fly somwhere. For those that say those orders can be cancelled, yes they can but they can be cancelled for a multitude of other uncontrollable reasons as well. Some or all of these joint ventures keep our domestic planes full and growing as well: Had profit sharing been changed I would not feel like I do now but it's still a yes for me
Those airplanes are going to have to fly somwhere. For those that say those orders can be cancelled, yes they can but they can be cancelled for a multitude of other uncontrollable reasons as well. Some or all of these joint ventures keep our domestic planes full and growing as well: Had profit sharing been changed I would not feel like I do now but it's still a yes for me
10-09-2016 | 05:10 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
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Tell us what will happen after management is out of compliance after 2 years based on the new far lower minimums.
10-09-2016 | 05:20 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
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From: A350 Both
10-09-2016 | 05:38 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
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I spent countless hours working on grievances with Ken Watts in the ALPA office in Minneapolis. All on my own time with no flight pay loss. Settlements involving hundreds of pilots and millions of dollars. Captain Watts is far more intelligent and experienced than I am. That being said, I have forgotten more about enforcing the contract and selling grievances than you will ever know.
Did you have to handle that one grievance once? I imagine you have little to no experience.
10-09-2016 | 07:09 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 166
From: window seat
I don't like the reduction in the AF ESK percentage, but I do like the shortening of the window. The previous 3 years of bottomless potential abuse by the company, followed by another year to "cure" was excessive. The percentage under the TA will be worse, but the compliance aspect will be way better. Is that a fair trade off? I don't know, I'll have to talk to a lot more people and see what they say at road shows.
The 650,000 block hour floor for global balancing, which is only triggered when they are below 48.5%, seems like a nice backstop, but what will the exact effect be when and if its triggered compared to today?
Is SEA a hub WRT the Alaska situation or is it not a hub for the purposes of our section 1? Because that is the only definition that matters.
The 650,000 block hour floor for global balancing, which is only triggered when they are below 48.5%, seems like a nice backstop, but what will the exact effect be when and if its triggered compared to today?
Is SEA a hub WRT the Alaska situation or is it not a hub for the purposes of our section 1? Because that is the only definition that matters.
10-09-2016 | 07:23 PM
#49
Otto
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
From: Turkish Pile Driver
I have another 20 years and scope matters to me. That said, a bad precedent was set when we settled for $30M for the previous JV grievance. Whatever the amount that DAL cheated, we have now set a precedent that said amount of JV flying is now worth $30M. This change to the JV % sucks, but again, using the precedent set last year what is the dollar value on this give? Is it worth $30M? Is it worthless as you say since it's unenforceable? If it is unenforceable anyway, then is it really a give? Playing devil's advocate, if this is really unenforceable then doesn't it makes sense for us to trade it for something of value since in reality the company can just take it with nothing in return?
10-09-2016 | 07:55 PM
#50
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Tell me your experience settling grievances.
I spent countless hours working on grievances with Ken Watts in the ALPA office in Minneapolis. All on my own time with no flight pay loss. Settlements involving hundreds of pilots and millions of dollars. Captain Watts is far more intelligent and experienced than I am. That being said, I have forgotten more about enforcing the contract and selling grievances than you will ever know.
Did you have to handle that one grievance once? I imagine you have little to no experience.
I spent countless hours working on grievances with Ken Watts in the ALPA office in Minneapolis. All on my own time with no flight pay loss. Settlements involving hundreds of pilots and millions of dollars. Captain Watts is far more intelligent and experienced than I am. That being said, I have forgotten more about enforcing the contract and selling grievances than you will ever know.
Did you have to handle that one grievance once? I imagine you have little to no experience.
Thank you for serving your pilots for free. I can only imagine the difficulty of sitting across the table from NWA management, regardless of the forum.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 10-09-2016 at 08:08 PM.
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