Yes/No TA Perspective
10-27-2016 | 09:17 AM
#11
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After quite a few posts here recently, I have come to one general thought on the differences between the yes and the no voters.
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
10-27-2016 | 09:20 AM
#12
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Joined: Sep 2008
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From: "Prof" button manipulator
No, it's absolutely NOT all about me.. Just trying to get a perspective of what QOL means to you? I hear the "buzz word" Quality of Life thrown out there all the time. Just wondering where it's coming from, as my QOL is excellent. Now if you're a 2014-2016 new-hire complaining about QOL issues, well you're barking up the wrong tree.
I can't speak for "every contract since BK.." I was a 2008 hire. I don't come on this forum complaining about how bad I've had it since 2008, and maybe you shouldn't either. From what Sailling, Denny, JB, et. al. have said, I think everyone hired post 2007-2008 era have had it pretty good! (Minus the threat of furlough during the economic downturn.)
I get it. We're pilots and we like to complain about enough never being good enough! (It's in our DNA.)
As you have no idea what others on here or at Delta have been through either! I've been military for over 25 years and have low tolerance or patience for someone sounding like a Nancy! (Sorry if "Princess" offended your generational shortcomings!)
I get it. We're pilots and we like to complain about enough never being good enough! (It's in our DNA.)
As you have no idea what others on here or at Delta have been through either! I've been military for over 25 years and have low tolerance or patience for someone sounding like a Nancy! (Sorry if "Princess" offended your generational shortcomings!)
10-27-2016 | 09:26 AM
#13
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Joined: May 2015
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From: A350 Both
I'm a solid NO vote and it's due to the fact that this TA will result in an overall reduction in our quality of life. This TA certainly will not improve our QOL, I don't even think it will maintain it, we're still moving backwards.
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
10-27-2016 | 09:39 AM
#14
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: 765-A
Well, it's all about you isn't it.
Lets pretend that from one year to the next Delta were to do the same amount of flying with the same number of airplanes. Pass this TA and it will require fewer pilots to do the same amount of flying. I would love to see the math on this if I'm wrong.
Every contract since BK we have given productivity concessions. C2012 cost us something like 250 jobs, no idea on this one. Again, show me that this TA will not cost us jobs with VB, WB ALV increase etc.
BTW, is the whole Princess thing necessary? You have no idea what I've been through. But I'm sure it makes you feel better so...........
Lets pretend that from one year to the next Delta were to do the same amount of flying with the same number of airplanes. Pass this TA and it will require fewer pilots to do the same amount of flying. I would love to see the math on this if I'm wrong.
Every contract since BK we have given productivity concessions. C2012 cost us something like 250 jobs, no idea on this one. Again, show me that this TA will not cost us jobs with VB, WB ALV increase etc.
BTW, is the whole Princess thing necessary? You have no idea what I've been through. But I'm sure it makes you feel better so...........
Don't forget, those productivity concessions that cost jobs are also going to be offset by a certain amount by increased vacation pay and credit, and increased training pay and credit.
I'd like to see what the overall give vs. gain is, as well.
But, I do know it doesn't all go against us.
10-27-2016 | 10:03 AM
#17
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From: Kickin’ Back
I think the vast majority of pilots are realists. They want that esoteric perfect contract but are savvy enough to realize they aren't going to get it. But they can sure smell a turd when one shows up. So it comes down to a decision based on compromise and where do we go if this gets voted down? No matter which way anyone votes, this is a business decision not an emotional one.
Denny
10-27-2016 | 10:09 AM
#18
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 1
From: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
I was a no on C2012 and a hard No on TA 15. I've seen nothing in TA16 to push me to a No.
As to QOL, this agreement will certainly enhance mine. I plan to fly a good bit less.
As to QOL, this agreement will certainly enhance mine. I plan to fly a good bit less.
10-27-2016 | 10:24 AM
#19
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Joined: Aug 2008
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No, it's absolutely NOT all about me.. Just trying to get a perspective of what QOL means to you? I hear the "buzz word" Quality of Life thrown out there all the time. Just wondering where it's coming from, as my QOL is excellent. Now if you're a 2014-2016 new-hire complaining about QOL issues, well you're barking up the wrong tree.
I can't speak for "every contract since BK.." I was a 2008 hire. I don't come on this forum complaining about how bad I've had it since 2008, and maybe you shouldn't either. From what Sailling, Denny, JB, et. al. have said, I think everyone hired post 2007-2008 era have had it pretty good! (Minus the threat of furlough during the economic downturn.)
I get it. We're pilots and we like to complain about enough never being good enough! (It's in our DNA.)
As you have no idea what others on here or at Delta have been through either! I've been military for over 25 years and have low tolerance or patience for someone sounding like a Nancy! (Sorry if "Princess" offended your generational shortcomings!)
I can't speak for "every contract since BK.." I was a 2008 hire. I don't come on this forum complaining about how bad I've had it since 2008, and maybe you shouldn't either. From what Sailling, Denny, JB, et. al. have said, I think everyone hired post 2007-2008 era have had it pretty good! (Minus the threat of furlough during the economic downturn.)
I get it. We're pilots and we like to complain about enough never being good enough! (It's in our DNA.)
As you have no idea what others on here or at Delta have been through either! I've been military for over 25 years and have low tolerance or patience for someone sounding like a Nancy! (Sorry if "Princess" offended your generational shortcomings!)
And oh by the way, I was hired back when this job offered a really good quality of life and a pension. To be fair, I didn't complain about my quality of life, only that I wanted to try and improve upon it. I know that's taboo around these parts.
I won't sink to Elliots level and name call, so I'm out of here.
10-27-2016 | 10:49 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
No, it's absolutely NOT all about me.. Just trying to get a perspective of what QOL means to you? I hear the "buzz word" Quality of Life thrown out there all the time. Just wondering where it's coming from, as my QOL is excellent. Now if you're a 2014-2016 new-hire complaining about QOL issues, well you're barking up the wrong tree.
I can't speak for "every contract since BK.." I was a 2008 hire. I don't come on this forum complaining about how bad I've had it since 2008, and maybe you shouldn't either. From what Sailling, Denny, JB, et. al. have said, I think everyone hired post 2007-2008 era have had it pretty good! (Minus the threat of furlough during the economic downturn.)
I get it. We're pilots and we like to complain about enough never being good enough! (It's in our DNA.)
As you have no idea what others on here or at Delta have been through either! I've been military for over 25 years and have low tolerance or patience for someone sounding like a Nancy! (Sorry if "Princess" offended your generational shortcomings!)
I can't speak for "every contract since BK.." I was a 2008 hire. I don't come on this forum complaining about how bad I've had it since 2008, and maybe you shouldn't either. From what Sailling, Denny, JB, et. al. have said, I think everyone hired post 2007-2008 era have had it pretty good! (Minus the threat of furlough during the economic downturn.)
I get it. We're pilots and we like to complain about enough never being good enough! (It's in our DNA.)
As you have no idea what others on here or at Delta have been through either! I've been military for over 25 years and have low tolerance or patience for someone sounding like a Nancy! (Sorry if "Princess" offended your generational shortcomings!)
If someone who god forbid wants a jobs positive contract is a "Nancy" then yeah, call me what you want.
And oh by the way, I was hired back when this job offered a really good quality of life and a pension. To be fair, I didn't complain about my quality of life, only that I wanted to try and improve upon it. I know that's taboo around these parts.
I won't sink to Elliots level and name call, so I'm out of here.
And oh by the way, I was hired back when this job offered a really good quality of life and a pension. To be fair, I didn't complain about my quality of life, only that I wanted to try and improve upon it. I know that's taboo around these parts.
I won't sink to Elliots level and name call, so I'm out of here.
Take a look at Elliot's little master piece. A bunch of false bravado and own crank stomping. The civil thing to do would be to apologize to Free Bird, but I'll bet he doesn't because that's not in his DNA.
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