Yes/No TA Perspective
10-27-2016 | 08:13 AM
#1
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From: Kickin’ Back
Yes/No TA Perspective
After quite a few posts here recently, I have come to one general thought on the differences between the yes and the no voters.
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
10-27-2016 | 08:20 AM
#2
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From: A350 Both
After quite a few posts here recently, I have come to one general thought on the differences between the yes and the no voters.
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
10-27-2016 | 08:23 AM
#4
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After quite a few posts here recently, I have come to one general thought on the differences between the yes and the no voters.
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
No voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what they think we should have and see a minus. Yes voters and the ones leaning that way look at this TA and compare it to what we currently have and see a plus.
IMO, when considering the pros and cons of this TA, one should be comparing it to what we currently have. Not an esoteric version of what should be.
Denny
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
10-27-2016 | 08:30 AM
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From: "Prof" button manipulator
I'm a solid NO vote and it's due to the fact that this TA will result in an overall reduction in our quality of life. This TA certainly will not improve our QOL, I don't even think it will maintain it, we're still moving backwards.
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
10-27-2016 | 08:51 AM
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Define Quality of Life? I'm senior "B" in my category and I have EXCELLENT quality of life! So do others in my seniority range. Now, if you're a 2014 hire and want to hang out on the bottom of the NYC-330 category, then come on here complaining about your QOL, or lack thereof, you ain't gettin' any sympathy from me, Princess!
Lets pretend that from one year to the next Delta were to do the same amount of flying with the same number of airplanes. Pass this TA and it will require fewer pilots to do the same amount of flying. I would love to see the math on this if I'm wrong.
Every contract since BK we have given productivity concessions. C2012 cost us something like 250 jobs, no idea on this one. Again, show me that this TA will not cost us jobs with VB, WB ALV increase etc.
BTW, is the whole Princess thing necessary? You have no idea what I've been through. But I'm sure it makes you feel better so...........
10-27-2016 | 08:53 AM
#8
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From: LAX ERA
I'm a solid NO vote and it's due to the fact that this TA will result in an overall reduction in our quality of life. This TA certainly will not improve our QOL, I don't even think it will maintain it, we're still moving backwards.
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
Passing this TA sends a very clear message to management going forward. Is all management has to do is low ball us with a TA, if we accept it great and if we don't that's fine too. Then within a year or two the pilots will accept QOL concessions just to keep up with the rest of the industry.
If we can't make improvements now, not restoration, just improvements to our quality of life now, we will more that likely continue to see our QOL decline in the future when the retirements kick in. Really hope I'm wrong on that.
As a hardover NO last time I'm not so sure. I think it's better than what we have now. IE, were you a yes or no on C12? Personally, I was underwhelmed by C12 and I do think this pushes the ball forward somewhat.
As a side, silly on the treadmill oxygen deprived analysis. I honestly think the duration of this TA and the time it will take to turn it down and reengage the company for something better.....are about the same
10-27-2016 | 09:04 AM
#9
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From: Kickin’ Back
Well, it's all about you isn't it.
Lets pretend that from one year to the next Delta were to do the same amount of flying with the same number of airplanes. Pass this TA and it will require fewer pilots to do the same amount of flying. I would love to see the math on this if I'm wrong.
You are stating it will cost jobs. It is not up to the other side to prove you wrong. Prove yourself right. That being said, you are probably right that it will cost some jobs although I will bet that it's fewer than you think when the whole TA is considered. And, IMO, with the how much hiring we are doing now and into the future, it's not going to be more than a one time blip on the radar screen.
Every contract since BK we have given productivity concessions. C2012 cost us something like 250 jobs, no idea on this one. Again, show me that this TA will not cost us jobs with VB, WB ALV increase etc.
Yes, those items will cost some jobs but there are also items like increased vacation and training pay that will offset those.
BTW, is the whole Princess thing necessary? You have no idea what I've been through. But I'm sure it makes you feel better so...........
Lets pretend that from one year to the next Delta were to do the same amount of flying with the same number of airplanes. Pass this TA and it will require fewer pilots to do the same amount of flying. I would love to see the math on this if I'm wrong.
You are stating it will cost jobs. It is not up to the other side to prove you wrong. Prove yourself right. That being said, you are probably right that it will cost some jobs although I will bet that it's fewer than you think when the whole TA is considered. And, IMO, with the how much hiring we are doing now and into the future, it's not going to be more than a one time blip on the radar screen.
Every contract since BK we have given productivity concessions. C2012 cost us something like 250 jobs, no idea on this one. Again, show me that this TA will not cost us jobs with VB, WB ALV increase etc.
Yes, those items will cost some jobs but there are also items like increased vacation and training pay that will offset those.
BTW, is the whole Princess thing necessary? You have no idea what I've been through. But I'm sure it makes you feel better so...........
Denny
10-27-2016 | 09:10 AM
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From: LAX ERA
Your right though, we'll never get there with our fleet mix IMO, but lord know they'll try
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