Its a small tweak to section 12 K.

Figuring out our rotation pay is way beyond second grade. It can be more like PhD.

The night credit thing has to do with a rotation that is being paid based on the length of the duty periods instead of the flight time or the average daily guarantee. We get paid whichever is more. We're going to get a little more "duty credit" pay if the duty period runs through the middle of the night.

In the big scheme of things that's not very many trips and although its an improvement it is not going to affect too many people. Mostly because ADG or flight time is usually going to be higher.

There's a fairly good explanation of Section 12 rotation pay in the Scheduling Handbook:


How Is Rotation Pay Calculated?
Per Section 12 M.1., when a rotation is constructed, its value is the greater of the pay applications described below:
a. Rotation credit—also known as "trip credit" or "1 for 3.5." Take the time away from base (TAFB) and divide it by 3.5 to get your rotation credit.
b. The sum, on a duty period basis, of the greater of 1) the duty period credit (Section 12.K), or 2) duty period minimum (DPM, Section 12.I), or 3) flight time.
c. Average daily guarantee—the number of calendar days in the rotation multiplied by 5:15. If the last duty period releases at or before 0200, that day does not count.


Per Section 12 M. 2., when a rotation is completed, its value is the greater of the pay applications described below:
a. Rotation credit—also known as "trip credit" or "1 for 3.5". Take the time away from base (TAFB) and divide it by 3.5 to get rotation credit.
b. The sum of his duty period credits—this is also known as "1 for 2." Take the duty time and divide it either by 2 or by 1.75, depending on the time of day, to get your duty credit (Section 12 K.).
c. The sum of his DPMs—a pilot who reports for a rotation is guaranteed a minimum pay and credit of two hours for each duty period.
d. His flight time—includes minutes under and deadhead time.
e. Average daily guarantee— the number of calendar days in the rotation multiplied by 5:15. If the last duty period releases at or before 0200, that day does not count.
f. The pay and credit determined under Section 12 M. 1. (i.e., as constructed)—this is the value of the rotation as it was awarded/assigned to your line of time.
These values are calculated for you and shown at the bottom of your rotation in iCrew.


The part highlighted in red is what's changing.
The 1.75 is going to 1.5 .
Hope that helps.

 

Thanks, Check. That helps a lot.

It would be cool for ALPA to show the effects of this change with a couple of sample rotations that would benefit from the change and what the change would be in hours/dollars. Same goes for reroute pay changes and premium pay changes. I just don't have a good sense of the magnitude of change these contractual verbiage tweaks will have on W2 (or qol?).

 

I thought Moak was the best?

 

You're not alone. I've been around a long time and I don't understand it.
Very few people have more than a rough idea about how that all works.

Our trip rigs, duty rigs and rotation guarantees are VERY important however.
That's what prevents the company from abusing us worse than they already do with horrible unproductive low paying trips, excessive sit arounds, multi-day layovers for no pay, etc. etc.

The rigs haven't got much attention over the last couple contract cycles because we've had other priorities but they are the bedrock of our quality of life.

I understand in this cycle the negotiators explored trying to get a flat daily guarantee instead of an average daily guarantee.
They couldn't get it. The price management wanted would have been too high.

 

Figuring out how a rotation actually gets credited is almost at the doctoral level and most definitely requires some rocket surgery. 😆

The easy ones are when you look at a rotation and the total credit (far left number, "TL") equals the second number (block time, "BL") because you are simply getting paid for what you fly or when total credit equals the respective multiple of the Average Daily Guarantee (i.e., 10:30, 15:45, 21:00, etc). It is when the "TL" number is greater than the ADG and the third number from the left ("CR") has a value that it gets a bit more cosmic. What is even more fun to figure out is when two forms of credit combine. It is possible that the TL can be comprised of both trip credit (1 hour of pay for each 3.5 hours you are away from base) and a duty period credit (1 hour of pay for every 2 hours you are on duty) for a certain day...or, as discussed in this thread, night duty.

And, don't forget that deadheading is a 1:1 credit so, even though it shows up under the third number ("CR"), it is treated like the second number ("BL").

 

It's not really a item that needs examples. It's pretty straight forward. It will have a impact on delayed flights to Europe. As a example we can go to 15 hours without a extension with 3 guys. That will now pay 1 hour for every 1.5 hours on duty between 10pm and 6AM. I had a 6 day trip where we were blocked at 7:20 and ended up at 15 hours on duty. We would have received 1:45 minutes more pay since it's a hard time trip.
It's not going to come into play very often since we have eliminated almost all back side of the clock multileg flying but is a improvement.

 

Well, thanks for the example. That's more than I knew before, which is why I asked.

 

you are delusional in that thought process The last thing he negotiated wasn't very good and neither is this one

 

[QUOTE=Turbo1;2233118]you are delusional in that thought process The last thing he negotiated wasn't very good and neither is this one[/QUOTE

in the navy you always wanted to follow a sh*tbird in a job......because even with a very limited improvement.....you looked like a water-walker

 

[QUOTE=BobZ;2233264]Following up a turd with a smaller turd might be looked on as an improvement. I don't think that's what we have here.

I think this is a solid TA....not an opinion I held for either of the last two.

I've said it before. I'm glad there are those who are willing to do this contract stuff, because I don't want to do it...much less suffer the slings and arrows before during and after.

I think Malone et al did a good job. I think the vote will bear out that the majority of this pilot group feels likewise. If I am wrong, I will live with the will of the majority.