Does the size of the airplane matter or the pay?

If you honestly believe it would be acceptable to cut pay rates outside of bankruptcy, OK. I have no response. Take that a step further and would it be acceptable to cut rates in the current negotiating environment?

I'm not calling you a liar but I am calling you unrealistic.

Many have called the no QOL gives stance unrealistic. Why is that not as fundamental as no pay rate cuts?

You and I both know this isn't about a sick note. It's about pilot pushing and affecting change over an aggregate of 13,000+ individuals by encumbering them when they are ill. This will result in a measurable reduction in sick leave usage, will it not? Would encumbering your ability to use vacation be acceptable?

I have all of that. I also live where my wife and I want to. It causes me to commute, but other than that things are pretty good. The pay rates this contract offers will end my gs days equalling more days at home. That is a qol improvement.

Right back at ya, you are not being honest. Nobody ever said "cut pay." Now, reducing a pay rate increase for increased QOL items, that is the topic of discussion.

Denny

I'm not sure that I am buying that, though I will give you beer points for a new word "encumbering." One poster explained it best. This TA will force you NOT to get a note the first 100 hours of sick leave use (no voluntary verification).

But it seems to me the guys most upset about that and the seeming "encumbering" of our sick leave use were the first ones to go tripping out the front door on their way to the doctor's office so as to voluntarily verify. Then in many cases it was pointless anyway as they didn't use 100 hours.

I never saw the point of voluntary verification so I never did. I never was planning to going forward even if we left the sick leave section unchanged.

I still don't see what the big deal is. The note is a pointless hassle for some of us, no doubt. It ain't worth a one-item no vote in my opinion.

How does it encumber my ability to use my sick leave? It's really simple. If I am sick, I drop a dime. Easy breezy. If you are that easily "intimidated", I will refer you to all of those "grow a pair" posts.


Good grief man.

I just flew with a guy who came from domestic to international. He said how tired and over worked he had been. I believe he also said he flew 8 GS a month? That's twice what I've flown in 31 years. They're voluntary right?

Exactly, cutting pay or making it neutral would be unconscionable but somehow QOL is not viewed equally. We are selling QOL for pay. I think that is shameful. Obviously I'm in the minority. The reverse would never be true.

Even if this were voted down pay rates are likely to increase. There are no provisions for increased QOL in our current PWA. Holding on to the current QOL standard is now not even a consideration while not getting a pay raise was never even a remote possibility. I get the fervor over pay rates but I'm saddened it comes at the expense of QOL items.

We will not be able to make this stand in the next contract negotiations given the increasing productivity demands we will see with upcoming retirements.

Yup, I'm easily intimidated. But I'm the only one, there will be no reduction in sick leave usage over the rest of the 13,000 pilot group. :cool:

We got'em on sick leave. Right?

So were there abusers, or not?