Once again we are given per diem to cover van driver tips. Corporate/Part 91 Operators have ways to expense line guys even though it is 'their jobs' to fuel the plane, do a lav service, park the plane in the hanger, etc.

Further evidence supporting my view of tipping the van drivers.


Tipping when you travel

I think per diem is also to cover food, what happens if you don't have any left after eating. Is tipping a driver for doing their job more important than eating?

Another thing that is going to impact tipping is the growing usage of credit cards. I never take money out of the ATM. The only time I come in contact with cash is if I go out to eat with people who give me cash and I pay the bill on my card. I for one don't plan on filling my pocket with dollar bills so I can participate in this silly tipping system. We should take a page out of Japans book.

excuses excuses excuses....

The new generation of FOs coming up:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/Temp5-37.png

That makes no sense. So if you make more in per diem do you get to eat better and tip more? Per diem for many of us is just cell phone bill money. I ask again...why don't we get tipped too? Who makes the tipping rules of who gets tipped and who doesn't. I'd like in on that commitiee. :) I know you have your points but I respectfully disagree with them.

If you can feel of about yourself after stiffing the van drivers, go ahead. I'd have a hard time looking myself in the mirror if I were that cheap. Those guys make crap, they depend on your tips.

Funny how the non tippers rarely say thanks or show any apprecition to the van driver for loading and unloading their bags. They simply walk away with their entitled attitude. You can't fix cheap and classless.

Yep. So true!

Well I am not sure what being polite has to do with tipping. If someone chose to be a van driver, it was a choice. Did they not know what the compensation was. Should captains tip new first officers since they also make very little and need every dollar in some cases to make it work. A tip was intended to thank people for great service not to become a form of compensation.

I would guess they knew it was minimum wage plus tips.


If a van driver is on time and handles your bags for you does that not constitute great service? Were you expecting a mint on your flight case?

Even worse is when its the cheap CA who takes his bags, doesn't acknowledge the driver, and walks off.

The people that don't tip are the first ones to complain that the hotel treats crews poorly compared to the regular customers. That's not karma, it's cause and effect.

I will gladly take my own bag and save the dollar

These are the same people who stiff the pizza delivery guy, valet, barber. Again, you cant fix cheap and classless.

So can anyone tell me who should get tipped and why? Also, why don't us FO's fall into that category? Serious question. Also, why do waiters & bartenders in Europe don't get tipped but here it's the standard to tip. How did it all start?

It's easy to call us cheap and classless but without premise. Also just because we disagree with the tipping system that businesses have developed to have customers pay part of their employees salaries does not mean we don't tip. Just means we don't agree with it.

Public forum so anyone can say any stupid thing they want. If you think tipping a van driver gives you class then you don't know what class is.

I never said tipping the van driver gives you class. Tipping the driver does not make you a class act. On the other hand, stiffing the van driver makes you a classless cheap azzz. Keep trying to justify it.

Keep trying to avoid justifying your reasoning. You tip because it's become the standard and don't know why.

Some people think a certain way just cuz. They have aggressive responses to anyone who questions them too hard and they feel justified in their indignation. If you think tipping is important then do it. Don't however malign someone who doesn't share your viewpoint. I realize its human nature to attack differences but as society and people evolve we have to be more open minded.

Is it an extension of what hotel bell hops expect? They sling your bags, you tip them.

If a van driver is eating his lunch and finds out he's supposed to pick up a crew from some regional airline that never tips, he's going to finish his sandwich and pick them up when he gets around to it. If that same regional airline's crewmembers normally tip, the prospect of earning $3-5 is going to make him leave right away. Hell, if it's a small town he might even track you on flightaware and be waiting for you.

Now, before you start typing, I know you're going to say "well it's his job to pick me up on time, why the hell should I have to tip him to do his job?"

After you make this argument, I will respond by stating that the world runs on dollar bills and not idealism, and then Delta1097 will, for the third time this evening, correctly label you as classless.

Most pilots I have met don't have much class and tipping a van driver won't help.

If my reasoning isn't obvious to you then you don't understand and abide to the norms of our society. It's customary in our society to tip the bartender, waiter, valet, pizza guy, barber, bellhop and for people who are regular travelers, the hotel van driver who loads and unloads your luggage. Do you also stiff the waiter and bartender and valet when they service you?

What if you don't have the money to spend on the van driver. I can avoid ordering pizza, eating at a restaurant, using a valet service. When I go to work I take the transportation the hotel provides which is negotiated by the company. The company arranged said service and it follows the company should provide and gratuity.

Considering how negative everything you post is.... I'm thinking the pot may need to meet the kettle.

Why do we speak English? Who decided that would be the ICAO language?

Why do we shake hands? Why don't we bow?

Yes tipping is an arbitrary practice built upon custom. Something tells me some are using the randomness of a tradition to justify themselves being cheap.

You Pinnacle guys are making a hell of a case to be hired via your newly signed back door agreement with Delta.

Can't understand where the bad stigma comes from.

At the end of the day everyone should do what they feel is right. People need to worry more about themselves than who is cheap or classless. My previous comment about pilots and class was tongue and cheek. I don't go around judging people's level of class, mostly because who am I too judge.

hey now, some of us "Pinnacle" guys were acquired...not hired. Don't generalize. :p

And your airline doesn't have any classless pilots?

Don't you just love it when a "legacy airline" pilot chimes in on a regional forum to preach his words of wisdom?

On the topic of the tipping deal, in Arizona the minimum wage is $7.80 an hour. If you are a waiter / waitress though, your employer can legally pay you just $4.80 an hour because it is expected that you will at least make up the difference in tips, and they get taxed accordingly.

If you don't tip in this scenario you are actually costing the server money.

Don't be that guy.

Yeah that's a server serving me... A van driver is totally different. And per diem is for food not to supplement a hotels poor pay. No one helps me with my pay. Especially after taking a 8$ pay cut. I don't mind if ppl tip or if they don't tip. It's a personal decision.

$8 pay cut that you voted for? Thats like 2 gallons of tractor diesel!

Now I see why you're so upset.

paxhauler doesnt fly for mainline.

Sure he / she does. Got a 747 on the avatar!

You've got a flying redbull pig on yours. How does that thing handle?

Its awesome, hence my screen name.

By the way, one thing that always bugged the crap out of me in the crew room was flight cases with 777 or 757 etc stickers everywhere, then the guy hops into the right seat of an ERJ.

Some guy told me in the bar one night that he flew for Continental Airlines. When I asked him what equipment he flew he said "its called an Embrarer 145."

I never knew Continental Airlines flew E145's

Shows how much I know!

I always went for the "only the planes Ive flown" mantra for stickers.

However, a quick search of paxhauler's history shows he is a CPZ guy. It's not that difficult.

As far as the bar thing, those of us who are or have been in the regional industry have all encountered the issue of "do i explain outsourcing or simplify this to 'a northwest feeder'" or something similar.

I hope you folks don't mind me trying to get back to the name change...

What does everyone think of the logo choices? The first choice reminds me of this:

http://www.kotex.com/na/images/products/01095_pkg.jpg

That's funny that you are saying this on a regional airline forum, where 60% of the people on here took out a $100k loan to get this job, knowing darn well what the pay/conditions are, then go out and buy a Bose headseat and Iphone 5 and iPad before basic indoc, then ***** and whine all day that they can't feed their family or tip the driver and are underpaid and something needs to be done about it, and that Captains don't know what it is like to be an FO.

yeah, because everyone who doesn't tip and posts in this thread is obviously a Pinnacle pilot, since no other pilots ever post in a thread that does not have their airline in the title.