Advice: Endeavor or Envoy
11-02-2016 | 02:11 PM
#31
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Joined: May 2016
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Awesome. Yeah didn't think my times were anything to wow at. Just checking to see if plan made since. I'm planning on doing some job fairs and internal recs. Thanks for the advice! I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
IMO, I think it's all about how you explain the failed checkrides in the interview, as many have said it's probably not the end of the world, but do you own up to it, did you learn from it, etc. The key is getting the opportunity to be able to explain it. While I don't think it would be a deal breaker for most companies, the reality is that you have thousands and thousands of qualified people that don't have any failures. At the end of the day, it's a matter of gettting the interview.....if you're lucky enough to get a interview, it really shouldn't be a huge deal to explain it, and not have it affect the outcome. Numerous professional failures imo would be a different scenario.
Not to **** on your wheaties, but your times are good, but I wouldn't say it's anything that's going to "wow" a major. Not saying it can't happen, but we all know a lot of people with much higher times and qualification who can't get a phone call. I think your plan of getting on with a regional and spending some time there would be well worth your time.
Not to **** on your wheaties, but your times are good, but I wouldn't say it's anything that's going to "wow" a major. Not saying it can't happen, but we all know a lot of people with much higher times and qualification who can't get a phone call. I think your plan of getting on with a regional and spending some time there would be well worth your time.
11-02-2016 | 05:28 PM
#33
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Joined: Aug 2011
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11-03-2016 | 02:27 AM
#34
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Hello everyone. Yes, this my first post, but I have been a long time lurker on the site. This will be a long post, so for those of you who are willing to stick with it and provide guidance or advice, I appreciate it. Since I have viewed the site a lot, I am aware of a couple of things right up front. I have already read the many pages of Endeavor's and Envoy's current states. I have done as much research as I can. I need perspectives from people who have "been there" or who are "living it". Hindsight is 20/20, and I know no one can predict the future, but if you seek counsel and go in knowing as much as you can, usually things turn out. So....
I live in Muskegon, MI (KMKG), and I have my ATP. I have DTW (3.5 hr drive), ORD (3.5 hr drive), and GRR (1 hr drive) near me. I also have friends and a place I could stay in DFW. I love Michigan in the summer and Texas in the winter. I would rather not be in NYC, but I guess both airlines are sending people there. I have three checkride failures (CFI).
Ideally, I would eventually like to be based in ORD or DTW, but I wouldn't mind DFW for training and sitting reserve. I would need a crashpad for ORD, DTW, or NYC reserve.
Endeavor:
Pros
My buddy works for them and says they are a great group of people to work with
Top pay now
Cons
I may never get to a major with my checkride failures
Retention bonus could go away
Envoy:
Pros
DFW would be best for reserve. No crashpad, no commute.
Flow to AA
Travel benefits
Cons
Reserve seems pretty long
People (on this site) seem like they hate their schedules/lines
Pay drop 2nd year
Could the flow go away?
On a related note, I have a training contract for $8,300 which is up in 5 months. Is it worth it to pay that money back and get ahead in seniority or should I wait?
Thank you for making it this far. I know ultimately I have to make the decision, but any insight is fully appreciated.
I live in Muskegon, MI (KMKG), and I have my ATP. I have DTW (3.5 hr drive), ORD (3.5 hr drive), and GRR (1 hr drive) near me. I also have friends and a place I could stay in DFW. I love Michigan in the summer and Texas in the winter. I would rather not be in NYC, but I guess both airlines are sending people there. I have three checkride failures (CFI).
Ideally, I would eventually like to be based in ORD or DTW, but I wouldn't mind DFW for training and sitting reserve. I would need a crashpad for ORD, DTW, or NYC reserve.
Endeavor:
Pros
My buddy works for them and says they are a great group of people to work with
Top pay now
Cons
I may never get to a major with my checkride failures
Retention bonus could go away
Envoy:
Pros
DFW would be best for reserve. No crashpad, no commute.
Flow to AA
Travel benefits
Cons
Reserve seems pretty long
People (on this site) seem like they hate their schedules/lines
Pay drop 2nd year
Could the flow go away?
On a related note, I have a training contract for $8,300 which is up in 5 months. Is it worth it to pay that money back and get ahead in seniority or should I wait?
Thank you for making it this far. I know ultimately I have to make the decision, but any insight is fully appreciated.
11-03-2016 | 04:26 AM
#36
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Joined: Apr 2013
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As far as the failures are concerned just put time between them and your next interviews and future career and make a positive spin on them when explaining in an interview by how you learned from the experience. Also own up to them and don't blame anyone except yourself. It's definitely a plus that you have no other issues since, especially with the 135 & 121 rides...this should show a positive trend.
It might be tough to get to a major for the time being with those issues but that may change in the future. But to get into a regional you can probably explain your way into the job with a good attitude, positive learning experience and clean history since then.
11-03-2016 | 04:33 AM
#37
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 46
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From The Who has been hired thread.....
Delta
2300TT
600 SIC 121
500 Mil SIC heavy
rest part 91 instructing
2.9 GPA
a few speeding tickets from 5+ years ago
Did some volunteer work years ago
2 part 91 checkride busts, 2 UPT checkride busts
It's through Endeavor SSP so I have to wait a little while for class, but I'm still on cloud nine.
Extremely humbled, especially considering the kinds of applications out there.
2300TT
600 SIC 121
500 Mil SIC heavy
rest part 91 instructing
2.9 GPA
a few speeding tickets from 5+ years ago
Did some volunteer work years ago
2 part 91 checkride busts, 2 UPT checkride busts
It's through Endeavor SSP so I have to wait a little while for class, but I'm still on cloud nine.
Extremely humbled, especially considering the kinds of applications out there.
11-03-2016 | 05:14 AM
#38
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,544
Likes: 0
From: 175 CA
I have talked to united as well as Delta recruiters, check ride busts from preairline training are a non-issue as long as you can say what you learned. It can be used to show how you overcame adversity. I have busts from 12 years ago , power off one eighties etc. but never failed airline training with actual FAA examiners when people that never failed before failed, my point being at some point you have to ask how relevant are busts. At a regional pre airline busts is all recruiters have to go on, for mainline it's regional training. You might have to work harder and add more points to your resume but it's not the end all be all people make it out to be.
11-03-2016 | 12:51 PM
#40
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 197
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From: Brazilian Left Seat Driver
Envoy, no brainer. Nothing beats a flow in your back pocket, specially now that they are paying decent money. You can still apply to Delta or United later and interview with better chances of getting hired than the low passing rates from endeavor and their worthless "guaranteed" interview program. Endeavor is a good place to work, but if your goal is a major, then I think you should go with the flow. Good luck!
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