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Old 07-13-2018, 12:45 PM   #1  
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Default Questions from an 1100 Hour CFII

Hi all, thanks in advance for answering some questions. I recognize that they're all going to be subjective; I'm just looking for honest advice and opinions.

I've been spending the last year or so pondering my regional options, and feel all but narrowed down to Republic and Envoy. On the surface, I understand the contract and QOL situation at Republic is better, but I have to admit that the upgrade times there (currently 2.5-3 years) are a little intimidating. Ultimately, the goal is to fly for the legacies, with a preference right now for AA or FX; I want to build time quickly to take advantage of the considerable movement in the industry (read: I'm happy to fly, not necessarily looking for ways to game the scheduling system to maximize days off at the moment).

Currently located in the Austin area, and am looking preferentially at airlines that will provide a base option at DFW or IAH for a reasonable commute. At the end of the day, I'm not 100% against relocating, but I have a life here, and have a strong preference to stay around Austin. IAH and DFW are both easy commutes, and would probably offer a fair amount in the way of commutable lines once I get there.

So with some background out of the way, here are my questions:

1) If I were to hit my ATP mins somewhere towards the end of the year (could be late November all the way through the holiday season), what am I reasonably looking at with respect to options that would put me in DFW? I understand I'm not likely to get the 175, which is fine. All other things being equal, sure, it seems like a fun plane to fly, but it's more of a tiebreaking factor for my other priorities. So with the 145, it seems likely to get LGA out of training, which is less-than-desirable because it's a 2-leg commute (unless I fly AUS-JFK and take the Airporter). How long are people sitting in LGA before being able to bid into DFW? What about the reserve times? Is 6-9 months reserve at DFW still the norm on the 145 once you get there?

2) What is the general perception of getting hired out of order at AA? Does it happen? What does it take? Flow is fine as an insurance policy, but I'm not really looking to spend 6-7 years at a regional. I have a Bachelor's degree and don't need flow to make it to a legacy. Will Envoy provide that opportunity to keep my career moving forward, even if it's not at AA?

3) Related, what are upgrade times looking like these days? Obviously, much has been made of the captain shortage, the DECs, and the enhanced commuter policy at LGA. All of that seems to play into the hands of somebody who wants to upgrade quickly, but it's kinda tough to figure out now exactly how quickly because the DECs are skewing the newest DOH for certain plane/base combinations. How long are new captains sitting at LGA before transferring out of base? Reserve times in the left seat at the bases?

4) Has the training backlog stabilized/improved? Last I heard, people were waiting months for a training date. I want to get in and get after it!

The main selling points at Envoy to me are the perceived quicker career progression vis-a-vis Republic, and an intangible direct association with AA (AA has meant a lot to me in a past life as a frequent flyer, and that's the primary reason why I want to fly for AA over the other legacies). Pretty much everything else (pay, QOL, planes) would favor Republic, but those Envoy selling points are pretty important to me.

Anything else I should know about working at Envoy, good or bad? How do you feel about the future of Envoy? Trending up or down? Do you feel like your union leadership is doing a reasonable job on behalf of its pilots?

I'm just trying to make the best decision. I can get pumped full of sunshine by recruiters at each airline. I'm looking for a fair assessment of the good and bad (fat chance at APC, I know!). I'm also aware some of this information could probably be found, but the forums aren't especially conducive to finding it.

Thanks again!
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:06 PM   #2  
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You can't make a decision for the future based on the facts of today. Things change daily with the regionals. Just keep watching the climate and pick the regional that gives you the best QOL because the chances are you are going to be working there for quite a few years.

Don't pick a regional based solely on a base. Bases open, Bases Close, and the company can displace you out of necessity for a number of reasons. With fast movement you lose the ability to easily predict where you will be month to month. I am not saying it is necessarily a bad thing, but if stability in a base is what you need for QOL, then rapid progression may not work to your advantage.

The short answer is, come back at about 1400 hours and then start asking these questions. It is almost certain that 6 months from now things at every regional can be vastly different.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:19 PM   #3  
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If your hours still permit you to sign up as a pipeline instructor at Envoy (question for recruiting), you will be at the top of the list for equip and base when you hit 1500 hrs. I think Coast is near you. From what I can tell we are going to be hiring a lot into the 175 into early 2019 as we have orders for a lot of them and even if you get ORD getting to DFW wonít be hard. Probably within 6-9 months. We do have direct AUS-ORD flights by the way. Upgrade times are insanely short right now, soon as you hit 121 mins. Problem there is LGA is a likely destination but if you figure out how to pace yourself (donít ***** yourself out for hours) you may be senior enough when the time comes for decent seniority at a better base.
Most guys on the 145 have been getting back to DFW in less than 9 months. How long youíll be on reserve depends but for most guys these days itís less than 6 months on the FO side. Those who know more than me can feel free to chime in and correct.
As far as the flow vs hire off the street goes... getting an interview off the street is incredibly difficult at all the majors unless you are military or check a bunch of boxes at HR. Think minority, volunteering, check airman, etc. Bachelors or not. Look at this poor schlub trying to get in over at AA

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...ing-wrong.html

Current new hires at United are averaging 6000hrs TT and 2500 PIC turbine. Now as the retirement rate ramps up in the coming years the bar will get lower but getting in somewhere with a flow or guaranteed interview is a huge bonus.

Just my $0.02. Spend them wisely.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:03 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon scamp View Post
If your hours still permit you to sign up as a pipeline instructor at Envoy (question for recruiting), you will be at the top of the list for equip and base when you hit 1500 hrs. I think Coast is near you. From what I can tell we are going to be hiring a lot into the 175 into early 2019 as we have orders for a lot of them and even if you get ORD getting to DFW wonít be hard. Probably within 6-9 months. We do have direct AUS-ORD flights by the way. Upgrade times are insanely short right now, soon as you hit 121 mins. Problem there is LGA is a likely destination but if you figure out how to pace yourself (donít ***** yourself out for hours) you may be senior enough when the time comes for decent seniority at a better base.
Most guys on the 145 have been getting back to DFW in less than 9 months. How long youíll be on reserve depends but for most guys these days itís less than 6 months on the FO side. Those who know more than me can feel free to chime in and correct.
As far as the flow vs hire off the street goes... getting an interview off the street is incredibly difficult at all the majors unless you are military or check a bunch of boxes at HR. Think minority, volunteering, check airman, etc. Bachelors or not. Look at this poor schlub trying to get in over at AA

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...ing-wrong.html

Current new hires at United are averaging 6000hrs TT and 2500 PIC turbine. Now as the retirement rate ramps up in the coming years the bar will get lower but getting in somewhere with a flow or guaranteed interview is a huge bonus.

Just my $0.02. Spend them wisely.
I have to agree with the above. The Coast idea is unique, and probably a gooos idea for getting a seniority boost. Best way to get to AA is go to a WO (Envoy in your case considering the bases), fly a lot, upgrade, get 300 hours 121 PIC, apply for a Line Check Airman spot, then get to 500 121 PIC and start updating your AA app at an absolute minimum of every 90 days.

Almost every Envoy street hire these days seems to be a Line Check Airman, and AA is always talking about the number of apps being updated within 90 days. Clearly those items seem to matter.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:07 PM   #5  
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Just to give an idea how different the "career paths" are _right now_ between the two regionals. You'll likely hold a line at Republic before Envoy starts interviewing again.

This will change, so when you have 1500 hours, come back and see what is going on then.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:10 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon scamp View Post
If your hours still permit you to sign up as a pipeline instructor at Envoy (question for recruiting), you will be at the top of the list for equip and base when you hit 1500 hrs. I think Coast is near you. From what I can tell we are going to be hiring a lot into the 175 into early 2019 as we have orders for a lot of them and even if you get ORD getting to DFW wonít be hard. Probably within 6-9 months. We do have direct AUS-ORD flights by the way. Upgrade times are insanely short right now, soon as you hit 121 mins. Problem there is LGA is a likely destination but if you figure out how to pace yourself (donít ***** yourself out for hours) you may be senior enough when the time comes for decent seniority at a better base.
Most guys on the 145 have been getting back to DFW in less than 9 months. How long youíll be on reserve depends but for most guys these days itís less than 6 months on the FO side. Those who know more than me can feel free to chime in and correct.
As far as the flow vs hire off the street goes... getting an interview off the street is incredibly difficult at all the majors unless you are military or check a bunch of boxes at HR. Think minority, volunteering, check airman, etc. Bachelors or not. Look at this poor schlub trying to get in over at AA

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...ing-wrong.html

Current new hires at United are averaging 6000hrs TT and 2500 PIC turbine. Now as the retirement rate ramps up in the coming years the bar will get lower but getting in somewhere with a flow or guaranteed interview is a huge bonus.

Just my $0.02. Spend them wisely.
Above points bolded that are spot on. In addition, pasted below is a post from another forum that represents another viewpoint from someone who has good information. I tend to agree 100%


What is being missed is the sheer numbers of Envoy pilots who have already flowed. The 2.5/6 not only came true but came true in spades with essentially sitting at 0.6/5.5 right now for prior 121 experience according to the up to date and most recent numbers. If you are an aspiring pilot and desire to one day work at the established largest major, then your path is clear. Go to a partner college, complete your course of study and then begin instructing as a pipeline pilot. You will likely spend no more than 1.5 years at this academy instructing with your reduced ATP mins lowered for an approved university college credit. Then, on to Envoy where you will spend your first 1000 hours gaining 121 experience and then upgrade at the 1.5 year mark. It's on to AA 4 years after that for a total time to AA beginning as a university pipeline instructor of 7 years exactly. I don't know where you can find anything out there that beats this. That's why the majority of candidates are vying for an approved university spot.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:14 PM   #7  
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Then, on to Envoy where you will spend your first 1000 hours gaining 121 experience and then upgrade at the 1.5 year mark. It's on to AA 4 years after that for a total time to AA beginning as a university pipeline instructor of 7 years exactly. I don't know where you can find anything out there that beats this. That's why the majority of candidates are vying for an approved university spot.
Optimist of the year award goes to...
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:48 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
Above points bolded that are spot on. In addition, pasted below is a post from another forum that represents another viewpoint from someone who has good information. I tend to agree 100%


What is being missed is the sheer numbers of Envoy pilots who have already flowed. The 2.5/6 not only came true but came true in spades with essentially sitting at 0.6/5.5 right now for prior 121 experience according to the up to date and most recent numbers. If you are an aspiring pilot and desire to one day work at the established largest major, then your path is clear. Go to a partner college, complete your course of study and then begin instructing as a pipeline pilot. You will likely spend no more than 1.5 years at this academy instructing with your reduced ATP mins lowered for an approved university college credit. Then, on to Envoy where you will spend your first 1000 hours gaining 121 experience and then upgrade at the 1.5 year mark. It's on to AA 4 years after that for a total time to AA beginning as a university pipeline instructor of 7 years exactly. I don't know where you can find anything out there that beats this. That's why the majority of candidates are vying for an approved university spot.
What are you basing 4 year flow for new hires on? Even recruitment isn't saying that.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:04 PM   #9  
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What are you basing 4 year flow for new hires on? Even recruitment isn't saying that.
The post is saying 1.5 years to upgrade and four years after upgrading to flow for a total of 5.5, which was stated earlier.

That being said, I still think there will only be about three months of people hired Spring of 2016 that MIGHT actually hit a 5.5 year flow. Just my opinion on that part.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:37 PM   #10  
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Whenever I see people flowing with 5.5 years Iíll belive it. People from 2007-2008 are flowing right now. Thatís 10-11 years.
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