Originally Posted by dk104444 (Post 3113446)

You guys just don't see it.

Originally Posted by NoValueAviator (Post 3113451)

I guess they're assuming you skip the regionals entirely. I've seen it done but the pilot was a) female, b) related to a united mgmt pilot, and c) could actually fly. and she'll be getting furloughed soon.

Originally Posted by dk104444 (Post 3113446)

You guys just don't see it.

Originally Posted by But seriously (Post 3113526)

Im going to have to call BS on this chart.
How are doctors still accumulating debt 8 years in, but pilots have already paid back their debt 3 years in?

At what point do they start counting and what career assumptions are they making?

Originally Posted by But seriously (Post 3113526)

Im going to have to call BS on this chart.

Originally Posted by THKooj (Post 3112993)

Oh wow, our resident superhero is still on his vision quest. Look, there are some things that you say that do make sense but by far, you try and take credit for way too much stuff you had nothing to do with. You didn't single-handedly save ALPA and the profession. I give far more credit to Envoy management, who you so graciously discredit here, than anything ALPA has ever done. They actually created the pipeline program which helped solidify the flow and essentially one interview, one career at Envoy. It was a brilliant move in an environment where getting pilots was starting to get tough. Instead of going out and dragging dollar bills behind a pickup truck at FBOs hiring Billy Bob away from his cropduster or Virgil from flying that clapped out Baron for some wannabe oil prospector, they made one of the most genius moves in the industry. They partnered with the universities and worked in tandem with the program that essentially places the pipeline candidate in class on Day One more ready than just about anybody before in the history of Eagle/Envoy.

It's nice you've had a soft landing and are enjoying working at a sub par carrier, but let's face it, that's not for the vast majority. The smartest guys in the country have all found their way to a respective pipeline university and bought themselves an AA career.

Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 3113379)

Did you ever ask them where they got the idea for the pipeline program? or the phrase Cradle to Grave? That management team hasn't had an original idea of their own in decades. That idea was suggested to them at an MEC meeting. It was mostly Neal, Jamie and little from me. You could literally see the wheels spinning in Isom's head. This Envoy management team only knows how to copy the work of others, or have ideas given to them by others. The real fact is that the AAG lawyers - to this day - have heartache over the whole advertising campaign with the one interview cradle to grave thing, which is why they toned it down a bit. It was looking too much like one job, not two... single carrier. That's why they have unofficial stooges like you on here saying the things they no longer want to say because it would come to bite them in the ***.

My (as you call it) sub-par carrier has grown 22% during the pandemic; how's yours doing?
We're the top first year pay in the industry to this day.
Our 12 year 767 CA rate is $297 p/h.... correct me if I'm wrong but AA's is $293 p/h
No planes have been parked
No pilots have been furloughed
A management team that mostly works with us, not against us....
We've only had one (1) grievance in two years, Envoy does hundreds each year caused by their unethical management
No plans to furlough are even being discussed.
A new to us 767 was recently put into service at Omni
Another new to us 767 is on its way this year
In the past two years the 767 fleet will have increased by 33% (Two-thirds of that this year during the pandemic)
New Hire classes slowed but never stopped
New hire classes are continuing to run right now
A new to us training center has recently opened
We continue to interview and hire
The window opened last week for 4 hours. 1200 applications flooded the system.

The retirement benefits are definitely better at AA, but how long do you expect to be furloughed Kooj? Job security and stability has value too. Flying for multiple departments of the US Govt, among other sources, makes for a very stable airline. Unlike AA, we've never aimed to be the largest airline in the world; we've aimed to be the best in the world at what we do.

My advice to current Envoy pilots is unless they are in the left seat making decent pay and can wait the 5 years for things to pick back up, they should consider getting on with an Atlas/Southern while they can before the furloughs start at the legacies. If you are definitely furlough fodder DO NOT WAIT FOR IT TO HAPPEN. Start applying now. Even look at Commutair which will be growing to take on all the Expressjet flying to keep yourself employed. Mesa is adding 737 ACMI flying to their company. You can go from an RJ to a 737 just by seniority. What looks better when legacy hiring gets restarted; an Envoy E145/175 RJ driver or a Mesa B737 guy? Competition will be tight, make yourself stand out.
An Envoy junior FO will be looking at a combined 9+ years to flow to AA at this point; and that is only if AA survives at it's former size. Depending on your age, that may be too long to sit at a regional.
A few of the better 135 and Fractional programs are still hiring, so don't overlook applying there too.