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Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 2907843)
Same at a few of the ACMI’s now too
Kalitta, Omni & ATI all have good contracts. Both K4 and Omni first year FO rates are $117ph and CA tops at $297ph. Home basing, no crashpads, very fast upgrade. But K4 and Omni are great prospects for those that like the equal time on/off positive space gigs. |
Originally Posted by havick206
(Post 2907856)
...K4 and Omni are great prospects for those that like the equal time on/off positive space gigs.
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Originally Posted by CrowneVic
(Post 2908325)
Great gig for guys who can't stand being home for 2 or 3 weeks at a time :cool:
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As much as Cujo wants to try to convince guys that Omni and the other ACMIs are the greatest thing since sliced bread, that setup is a whole different ballgame. Not many families are gonna be good with being gone up to 2 weeks at a time. Cujo loves to say "I only flew 30 hours this month". Well, you can only fly 30 hours a month on RSV at Envoy, but it doesn't mean it's a good thing. There's a reason that the ACMIs are a last choice decision behind the legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs. You can scream "positive space tickets" and "vacation in Vegas" as much as you want. Anyone with any sense sees right through that nonsense. Just to put it into perspective, Omni needs Street Captains. That's how successful they've been in their recruiting endeavors.
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Originally Posted by bigtime209
(Post 2908336)
As much as Cujo wants to try to convince guys that Omni and the other ACMIs are the greatest thing since sliced bread, that setup is a whole different ballgame. Not many families are gonna be good with being gone up to 2 weeks at a time. Cujo loves to say "I only flew 30 hours this month". Well, you can only fly 30 hours a month on RSV at Envoy, but it doesn't mean it's a good thing. There's a reason that the ACMIs are a last choice decision behind the legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs. You can scream "positive space tickets" and "vacation in Vegas" as much as you want. Anyone with any sense sees right through that nonsense. Just to put it into perspective, Omni needs Street Captains. That's how successful they've been in their recruiting endeavors.
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Originally Posted by 6ix9ineYearFlow
(Post 2906392)
What, in your opinion, is the breakeven point for when it is worth it to stay at Envoy for the flow or one of the 'Big 6' versus leaving early for a low cost carrier? Is it worth it to leave with SIC time only or at least stay until 1,000 TPIC?
Additional Thoughts: Hiring is going to be through the roof at the legacies next year and for years to come. Delta is hiring around 1,000+ pilots, AA is projected to be hiring 1,300+ pilots, United just came out and said they're hiring over 10,000+ pilots over the next decade. None of this is surprising, but things are starting to happen. The [Ultra] Low Cost Carriers are becoming career destination airlines. Spirit & Frontier have really nice contracts that will likely get even bigger improvements in the next few years. Allegiant is due for a new contract soon. Even Sun Country will be looking at a new contract next year. Waiting around at Envoy for an AA flow is less and less attractive. AA, as a company, is a mess and is getting hammered by some LCCs, particularly Spirit. It's going to be UGLY when the economy turns. Waiting 7-9 years to flow for a new hire hardly seems worth it given their relatively seniority by the time they'd make it to mainline. I’ll tell you what I’ve told each of them on the first day we’ve talked. Your goal should be to beat the flow to your “final” airline. Even if it’s AA, you should always try to be maneuvering and strengthening your resume to get there before your flow date. The goal of the flow is not to staff mainline, just simply to act as a carrot to get you to one of the AAG regionals. It’s no different than pensions that were offered to the previous generation, as it is just a promise that will benefit some and since it was always under company control, was taken away when times changed and the company couldn’t afford to honor its commitment. Don’t think for a second that if crap really hits the fan that anything “contractual” like the flow can’t be altered, changed, or discontinued in the future, literally overnight. If going to a LCC is either your end goal or you think a higher step up the ladder towards it, then go and don’t look back. Too much hiring for the foreseeable future to fall into the flow “trap”. That’s the whole point of it honestly. To get you on property and keep you there. For some, it works and is a great thing. For others, it works against you because it makes you second guess your choice to leave, which may just be the best thing for you. Btw... no of these comments above should be construed as anything negative against flow-thrus. Everyone I have met is a great guy who I’d rather have voting on the next few contracts (they know exactly how shady AAG management is), than some of the older generation who seem to have given up and just want more $$$ before they leave, QWL be damned. |
Originally Posted by havick206
(Post 2907856)
I think K4 are looking for 777 typed guys.
But K4 and Omni are great prospects for those that like the equal time on/off positive space gigs. |
Originally Posted by CrowneVic
(Post 2908325)
Great gig for guys who can't stand being home for 2 or 3 weeks at a time :cool:
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Originally Posted by bigtime209
(Post 2908336)
As much as Cujo wants to try to convince guys that Omni and the other ACMIs are the greatest thing since sliced bread, that setup is a whole different ballgame. Not many families are gonna be good with being gone up to 2 weeks at a time. Cujo loves to say "I only flew 30 hours this month". Well, you can only fly 30 hours a month on RSV at Envoy, but it doesn't mean it's a good thing. There's a reason that the ACMIs are a last choice decision behind the legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs. You can scream "positive space tickets" and "vacation in Vegas" as much as you want. Anyone with any sense sees right through that nonsense. Just to put it into perspective, Omni needs Street Captains. That's how successful they've been in their recruiting endeavors.
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Originally Posted by AFTrainerGuy
(Post 2908610)
I do “mentorship” for the AA Cadet program. I only offer my 2 cents and my opinion is just that, a opinion. Take it for what it’s worth.
I’ll tell you what I’ve told each of them on the first day we’ve talked. Your goal should be to beat the flow to your “final” airline. Even if it’s AA, you should always try to be maneuvering and strengthening your resume to get there before your flow date. The goal of the flow is not to staff mainline, just simply to act as a carrot to get you to one of the AAG regionals. It’s no different than pensions that were offered to the previous generation, as it is just a promise that will benefit some and since it was always under company control, was taken away when times changed and the company couldn’t afford to honor its commitment. Don’t think for a second that if crap really hits the fan that anything “contractual” like the flow can’t be altered, changed, or discontinued in the future, literally overnight. If going to a LCC is either your end goal or you think a higher step up the ladder towards it, then go and don’t look back. Too much hiring for the foreseeable future to fall into the flow “trap”. That’s the whole point of it honestly. To get you on property and keep you there. For some, it works and is a great thing. For others, it works against you because it makes you second guess your choice to leave, which may just be the best thing for you. Btw... no of these comments above should be construed as anything negative against flow-thrus. Everyone I have met is a great guy who I’d rather have voting on the next few contracts (they know exactly how shady AAG management is), than some of the older generation who seem to have given up and just want more $$$ before they leave, QWL be damned. |
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