the truth and nothing but the truth. Whoever is reading this and voted YES, hope you’re feeling like a fool.

No more LOA's of any kind until QT is back.

Well this is what the company wants. They’ll use it as leverage because almost everyone used QT as their only crutch.

i would get familiar with DECS and tell the company to pound sand if they try to use it as a chip.

Kudos to all the union guys working so hard on this. I'm sure it's stressful to say the least. However, we did give away something. This is only about 3% of the picture, but still significant when every inch counts.

We gave away our Badges if we take the LOA. AA does not.

I specifically asked about this in an email, and that question was not addressed on the call. I know my email was read because my other question was asked verbatim. Emailed twice, no answer. A call is nice, but I don't appreciate a very specific and clear question not being addressed in the proper forum.

The American LOAs allow Badges, CASS (jumpseat), and KCM to be retained. This applies to any length temporary LOA, and those who buy out until retirement. So guys that are unqualified to fly for years will jumpseat until 65. We operate under the same employee travel guide. I find it disingenuous when we are told that it simply could not be done according to the employee travel guide. It is also unclear to me whether this was company initiated, or the union, or the union didn't even pursue doing this. Nothing is impossible, but it would be nice to know the "why" something isn't happening.

I totally get that these LOAs are for a specific few. However anything that we can gain in the LOAs would make them more attractive, get more people to take them, and ultimately help preserve cash. Hopefully the LOA offers get sweeter in time if no one takes them. Taking the bailout money, they cannot furlough (until OCT) and need people to take these.

I think the QT thing is totally related. The union and pilot group tried to work with the company in a reasonable manner on this LOA thing, but not from a firm enough position. Not sure why the eagerness to sign the letters as is. Giving ground sets the stage for more to be gained by the company.

Talking about the LOAs longer could have still resulted in the QT still being turned off, but at least then we could have requested QT to be restored before signing these letters, changes or not. This is precisely why the QT was not turned off before signing. Who would sign this when everyone is ****ed off? It is not a coincidence QT was turned off hours later. Every hour it was on was costing them money and it needed to be off ASAP. We have to learn from stuff like this going forward.

Overall, good job for all working on this as a whole, get regrouped, and make gains where we can.

When I talked with my rep, he seemed unconcerned about the LOA... it was a free gift from management. No concessions...

"I fear the Greeks, even when bringing gifts."

Like I mentioned, the reps heard what they wanted to hear on this one.

Look guys, if you want to say they waited until the union voted on these leave of absence LOAs to shut down QT, I’ll agree with you but they were going to shut it down no matter how the union voted on these LOAs. This shutdown is due the vote to reject the LOA that would have rescinded LOA 13-13. It’s retaliation for not getting what they wanted last week and is intended to at least get some of what they wanted anyway. If we as a group did something similar, it would be considered an illegal job action. Would be nice to hear from someone at ALPA legal on this one. In the mean time, the best we can do is learn how to do all this stuff manually (if you don’t know already) and keep doing what you’ve been doing so they don’t get out of this what they wanted. It’s just that most people on property has never had to do it.

This is a huge concern to me as well and I also do not understand the disconnect with AA if that is true. I certainly know it isn’t true for any other airline, so I don’t see what is so special about Envoy.

I’d consider a leave, but not if I have to give up my badge. Goodness knows I’m not going anywhere that isn’t for work during this, but I can’t be the only one whose decision is affected by this issue.

You simply cannot use the excuse, “It’s because of American corporate stuff” if it isn’t applying to American.

I like the way things are going, in a way. We approved their LOA in good faith because it was mutually beneficial and cost us nothing. No spite, just honest fair dealing. Meanwhile, in the background, they were sabotaging our ability to easily pick up open time and book commuter rooms and trip trade and submit other RFs (etc etc) through extracontractual back channels.

The callous and vindictive nature of Envoy management has been laid bare. I suspect that as people crash into the realities of life on reserve at Envoy, more and more will take the leave in the coming months. But if they don’t, and Envoy needs another LOA, the hate in pilots hearts over this cowardly attack and our miserable reserve rules are going to turn into a significant obstacle for Ric and Co.

​​​​Unfortunately many will have to choose between an unsustainable life on reserve as a commuter with no flying and no crashpad, or living off 19 hours a month. I don't think the realities of how bad reserve will be in the coming months for a commuter have set in