View Poll Results: When does AA go bankrupt?
Q4, 2020
7
5.98%
Q1-Q2, 2021
29
24.79%
Q3-Q4, 2021
44
37.61%
2022
5
4.27%
2023 & Beyond
2
1.71%
“AA will never lose money again,” ENY flows < 5 years
11
9.40%
They won’t declare bankruptcy.
19
16.24%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll
When Does AAG Declare Bankruptcy (Yet Again)?
09-01-2020 | 07:58 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 0
While true on a payscale basis, don't forget that more junior pilots typically have a family of dependents that AAG covers with health insurance (which isn't cheap). Senior pilots typically do not, with the exception of a spouse. Obviously there are exceptions to this but downplaying the cost savings of furloughing the junior pilots because "they are cheap" is a not as true of a statement as one might initially think.
09-01-2020 | 09:14 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Of course they count. But the population of those types gets less and less as individuals get older (read: more senior).
09-01-2020 | 09:18 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Older individuals being less likely to have kids on their health insurance is a hard concept to grasp? My comment was regarding mainline pilots because the post I quoted was regarding mainline furloughs. At the voy most pilots are closer 20 than they are to 65 so the demographic is different.
09-02-2020 | 12:12 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 0
From: 175 CA
Older individuals being less likely to have kids on their health insurance is a hard concept to grasp? My comment was regarding mainline pilots because the post I quoted was regarding mainline furloughs. At the voy most pilots are closer 20 than they are to 65 so the demographic is different.
Besides much higher longevity pay, they have more vacation and get sick more often.
09-02-2020 | 03:29 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 7
AND it needs to be pointed out that the cost of the dependents he's mentioning don't come anywhere close to matching the pay disparity between a recently hired narrowbody FO and a senior widebody captain... or even a senior widebody FO. It's not just the pay scale, it's the seat too.
09-02-2020 | 05:33 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,140
Likes: 124
Older individuals being less likely to have kids on their health insurance is a hard concept to grasp? My comment was regarding mainline pilots because the post I quoted was regarding mainline furloughs. At the voy most pilots are closer 20 than they are to 65 so the demographic is different.
I mean a senior wide body captain is making upwards of $300,000 a year and a junior FO just starting out is making $93,000-$135,000 their first and second year. So again, a difference of like $170,000-$200,000 a year. That small difference in health care costs is nothing compared to getting rid of the senior captain in terms of cost savings. When you add in retirement, 16% a year AA pitches in, that far exceeds the cost of the healthcare alone, close to $50,000 a year for that senior captain.
Anyway, all that to say senior pilots are far more valuable to dump than a junior one.
09-02-2020 | 05:58 AM
#47
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 638
Likes: 12
Yeah this is not accurate at all. Lets just assume the difference in cost was something crazy like $3000 a month more for a pilot with dependents (FYI it isn't). So that's a difference of $30000 a year, a lot of money but when you compare it to salaries is just a drop in the bucket for the mainline folks.
I mean a senior wide body captain is making upwards of $300,000 a year and a junior FO just starting out is making $93,000-$135,000 their first and second year. So again, a difference of like $170,000-$200,000 a year. That small difference in health care costs is nothing compared to getting rid of the senior captain in terms of cost savings. When you add in retirement, 16% a year AA pitches in, that far exceeds the cost of the healthcare alone, close to $50,000 a year for that senior captain.
Anyway, all that to say senior pilots are far more valuable to dump than a junior one.
I mean a senior wide body captain is making upwards of $300,000 a year and a junior FO just starting out is making $93,000-$135,000 their first and second year. So again, a difference of like $170,000-$200,000 a year. That small difference in health care costs is nothing compared to getting rid of the senior captain in terms of cost savings. When you add in retirement, 16% a year AA pitches in, that far exceeds the cost of the healthcare alone, close to $50,000 a year for that senior captain.
Anyway, all that to say senior pilots are far more valuable to dump than a junior one.
Also, since AA is self insured, the health costs of a 60yo couple is probably still statistically higher than a family of 4 with parents in their 40’s.
I’m not going to pretend to have numbers to back that up. It’s just a guess.
09-02-2020 | 06:16 AM
#48
Banned
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Yeah this is not accurate at all. Lets just assume the difference in cost was something crazy like $3000 a month more for a pilot with dependents (FYI it isn't). So that's a difference of $30000 a year, a lot of money but when you compare it to salaries is just a drop in the bucket for the mainline folks.
I mean a senior wide body captain is making upwards of $300,000 a year and a junior FO just starting out is making $93,000-$135,000 their first and second year. So again, a difference of like $170,000-$200,000 a year. That small difference in health care costs is nothing compared to getting rid of the senior captain in terms of cost savings. When you add in retirement, 16% a year AA pitches in, that far exceeds the cost of the healthcare alone, close to $50,000 a year for that senior captain.
Anyway, all that to say senior pilots are far more valuable to dump than a junior one.
I mean a senior wide body captain is making upwards of $300,000 a year and a junior FO just starting out is making $93,000-$135,000 their first and second year. So again, a difference of like $170,000-$200,000 a year. That small difference in health care costs is nothing compared to getting rid of the senior captain in terms of cost savings. When you add in retirement, 16% a year AA pitches in, that far exceeds the cost of the healthcare alone, close to $50,000 a year for that senior captain.
Anyway, all that to say senior pilots are far more valuable to dump than a junior one.
09-02-2020 | 06:20 AM
#50
Banned
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Not really, that family of 4 eats up a lot of deductible and then causes the insurance portion to kick in much earlier than that couple in their 60s.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
