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06-05-2021 | 09:59 AM
#121
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 414
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06-05-2021 | 12:50 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 0
From: Resigned
06-05-2021 | 02:27 PM
#123
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 507
Likes: 1
Might as well get a pool going on how many guys actually flow before that piece of mgt gamesmanship gets whacked in arbitration.
06-05-2021 | 03:14 PM
#124
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Under RLA, the burden of proof in grievances is with the association. And they need to show not that they are right, but that the company is wrong.
The company is always right, unless proven otherwise.
06-05-2021 | 03:22 PM
#125
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 507
Likes: 1
Strong assumption there. Remember, arbitrations are not fair game under RLA.
Under RLA, the burden of proof in grievances is with the association. And they need to show not that they are right, but that the company is wrong.
The company is always right, unless proven otherwise.
Under RLA, the burden of proof in grievances is with the association. And they need to show not that they are right, but that the company is wrong.
The company is always right, unless proven otherwise.
06-05-2021 | 03:31 PM
#126
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
After seeing how arbitrators operate, I can just say it is far from a certain win for DALPA.
Envoy has a pretty unpopular thing in their contract because of an email that had a line highlighted in green, even though the language is completely clear to the opposite.
It's just a d*ck move from their management. They know time is on their side, and they can operate the extra RJs through the summer with no penalty by offering this carrot to Endeavor.
I hope it doesn't turn into a situation, where the flow pilots are essentially blacklisted at Delta. I hope they are smart enough to differentiate EDV pilot group, and their management.
Envoy has a pretty unpopular thing in their contract because of an email that had a line highlighted in green, even though the language is completely clear to the opposite.
It's just a d*ck move from their management. They know time is on their side, and they can operate the extra RJs through the summer with no penalty by offering this carrot to Endeavor.
I hope it doesn't turn into a situation, where the flow pilots are essentially blacklisted at Delta. I hope they are smart enough to differentiate EDV pilot group, and their management.
06-11-2021 | 07:02 AM
#127
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Question for someone just now starting training and hoping to maybe land at Envoy or PSA I’ve always heard the flow should be used as a last ditch resort. Get your hours, get in and get out. With flow possibly being at 15 possible years Is this still not the same thought. I mean I know captain upgrades might no longer be 2 years like In the past, but a 5th year captain makes more than what I make at my current job and I’d rather be getting paid to fly than paid to work on airplanes myself.
06-13-2021 | 05:43 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Question for someone just now starting training and hoping to maybe land at Envoy or PSA I’ve always heard the flow should be used as a last ditch resort. Get your hours, get in and get out. With flow possibly being at 15 possible years Is this still not the same thought. I mean I know captain upgrades might no longer be 2 years like In the past, but a 5th year captain makes more than what I make at my current job and I’d rather be getting paid to fly than paid to work on airplanes myself.
I like to explain the flow as smoke and mirrors.
Keep in mind also the flow is not guaranteed. The only pilots who had a guarantee flow were the protected pilots. (This is true at envoy, I can’t attest to PSA or Piedmont)
Choose the regional that is the easiest commute and or drive to where you live.
Reserve at a regional is not fun, so keep that In mind when selecting an employer. We are getting to a point again where qualified candidates will be able to choose what regional they want to go to.
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06-13-2021 | 05:49 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Strong assumption there. Remember, arbitrations are not fair game under RLA.
Under RLA, the burden of proof in grievances is with the association. And they need to show not that they are right, but that the company is wrong.
The company is always right, unless proven otherwise.
Under RLA, the burden of proof in grievances is with the association. And they need to show not that they are right, but that the company is wrong.
The company is always right, unless proven otherwise.
06-13-2021 | 08:33 AM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Question for someone just now starting training and hoping to maybe land at Envoy or PSA I’ve always heard the flow should be used as a last ditch resort. Get your hours, get in and get out. With flow possibly being at 15 possible years Is this still not the same thought. I mean I know captain upgrades might no longer be 2 years like In the past, but a 5th year captain makes more than what I make at my current job and I’d rather be getting paid to fly than paid to work on airplanes myself.
it’s not going to be 15. It was approaching the 5 year mark as Covid hit. With the shortage and the hiring boom at the time your finishing you may be skipping regionals all together and going straight to an LCC. Trying to plan for 2-3 years before you’re even in the marketable training and experience range level is way premature. It’s a good thing to keep an eye on the industry, but don’t become hyper focused on anything. If the regionals are still around it will be the wholly owned ones since they’re just cost centers, not real companies that must make a profit or die. Oh, and don’t compare an RJ CA salary now to what you’re making now, compare it to other professions dealing with 50-300 lives a day.... it’s way underpaid.
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