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Any recent DEC's hire in this thread?
Wondering about the 3 day "Jet refresher course" that Envoy is now doing, before assigning an orientation class date. Seems to be a new thing? Is this something aimed at DECs who are out of currency? Or has there been issues with DECs in training/on the line? Anyway, would be interested to hear from anyone who has done this ;-) |
3 day jet refresher
I did the three day jet refresher course prior to my recent class date. I found it helpful, they put you in a 145 sim more than likely, because that is what they have available. I haven’t touched an airplane in 13 years since working for my previous airline, so the refresher course is for people like me getting me back into the swing of things. Also, it’s for the company to evaluate you, to see that you’re at least a little bit trainable. Not sure what they would do if you completely bomb it. But they pretty much walk you through it, and you are not expected to know any specific procedures. Just basic stick and rudder skills so to speak.
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Is there long call or an aggressive pickup window?
Are DEC’s paid captain pay during training? Also, if you leave and don’t meet the obligations of the 24 months at Envoy, do they hold your records hostage from PRIA? Do they setup a period to repay the money? Thanks |
Originally Posted by SGS233
(Post 3526925)
It's nice to see folks sharing info, so I thought I'd add the following as a supplement to everything else that's been well stated above.
RE: the overall DEC hiring process: 1st visit: Logbook, Urinalysis, Fingerprints... half-day, it starts early, they will fly you in the night before and provide a hotel 2nd visit: "Orientation"... half-day (same as above) and you'll end the day with a seniority number, a class start date, being on payroll 3rd visit: Day 1 of Class (this is when you will bid for base and seat assignments) How seniority numbers were assigned: Cadets first, then those with previous Part 121 hours The individual with the most number of 121 hours was at the top of the list, with the person having the next highest number of 121 hours immediately below them IIRC, those with "qualifying" 121.436 time (eg, 135, 91K, 500 hours of military) were racked and stacked after all the regular 121 folks Class Date assignments: Cadets were assigned to the very next class After that, those with the highest seniority (ie, highest number of Part 121 hours) started soonest, everyone else gets slotted into subsequent class dates based on seniority (highest-to-lowest) Pay: For the time between "Orientation" and Day-1 of Class: $90/hr x 64 hours Starting on Day-1 of Class: Those that bid FO will be paid at their "longevity rate" x 64 hours mo while in training Those that bid CA will be paid at their "longevity rate" x 72 hours a mo while in training Have the following available during the "Orientation" visit: Passport (for employment verification) Notebook/iPad/Tablet/smartphone (whichever works for you, but you will be setting up your company www access (in real-time) as part of this visit) OBTW: As someone stated above, if you have 950+ Part 121 hours, REGARDLESS if you bid CA or FO, you will: Train as a CA Do your type ride as a CA Be observed by a Fed as a CA NB: During training, those that bid FO will only be paid 64 hours/mo (even though they are training as a CA) vs the 72 hours/mo that will be paid to those that bid for the left-seat Those that bid FO will fly in the right-seat until they decide to move seats (assuming there is a vacancy) and will not return to the schoolhouse for any additional training Logistics: Visit 1: the hotel shuttle is on-demand... so call the front desk when you're ready to be picked-up Visit 2: ditto the above (and it generally runs every 30 minutes) You can bring all of your travel kit to the "Orientation" briefing room as there will be ample space to store it in the room itself General vibe: The Director of Training very refreshingly stated (my paraphrasing): "We're a service department, we're here to help you succeed." For me, personally, it was a much-appreciated, and much different, mindset from my previous (successful, but not well organized) 121 training experience A 180+ page ERJ 175 study guide was electronically distributed to all of the "Orientation" attendees the same day that we were there Hope this helps. |
Originally Posted by Puck Hawg
(Post 3567105)
Is there long call or an aggressive pickup window?
Are DEC’s paid captain pay during training? Also, if you leave and don’t meet the obligations of the 24 months at Envoy, do they hold your records hostage from PRIA? Do they setup a period to repay the money? Thanks |
Originally Posted by Sadlerg5
(Post 3566516)
I did the three day jet refresher course prior to my recent class date. I found it helpful, they put you in a 145 sim more than likely, because that is what they have available. I haven’t touched an airplane in 13 years since working for my previous airline, so the refresher course is for people like me getting me back into the swing of things. Also, it’s for the company to evaluate you, to see that you’re at least a little bit trainable. Not sure what they would do if you completely bomb it. But they pretty much walk you through it, and you are not expected to know any specific procedures. Just basic stick and rudder skills so to speak.
I myself have not touched a jet in 7 years and trying to get back but just a 3-day jet refresher may not be enough in my situation. I don't have much 121 time, when are they going to start hiring FOs again? |
Originally Posted by Sadlerg5
(Post 3566516)
I did the three day jet refresher course prior to my recent class date. I found it helpful, they put you in a 145 sim more than likely, because that is what they have available. I haven’t touched an airplane in 13 years since working for my previous airline, so the refresher course is for people like me getting me back into the swing of things. Also, it’s for the company to evaluate you, to see that you’re at least a little bit trainable. Not sure what they would do if you completely bomb it. But they pretty much walk you through it, and you are not expected to know any specific procedures. Just basic stick and rudder skills so to speak.
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Returning to Envoy
Hey guys,
Forgive me if I’m repeating a previous post…I went back like 6 pages. I’m coming back to Envoy after being away from flying for 8 years. I left for family reasons, but the timing seems to be favoring me coming back now. I just dropped my app a few days ago, but does anyone have any idea how long it takes to hear anything back? I was a junior captain when I left, but reading the posts here sounds like I have a chance to get back to the left seat. Will lack of instrument currency restrict my chances or will they just catch me up in the sim? Plus, it sounds like I may be able to get the 1:1 seniority pay, but not sure about the $100K bonus if classes are already filling up to March. Any help would be appreciated. I will be applying elsewhere, as well, but not sure if I can pass up the seniority pay. |
Originally Posted by TheRegalEagle
(Post 3575884)
Hey guys,
Forgive me if I’m repeating a previous post…I went back like 6 pages. I’m coming back to Envoy after being away from flying for 8 years. I left for family reasons, but the timing seems to be favoring me coming back now. I just dropped my app a few days ago, but does anyone have any idea how long it takes to hear anything back? I was a junior captain when I left, but reading the posts here sounds like I have a chance to get back to the left seat. Will lack of instrument currency restrict my chances or will they just catch me up in the sim? Plus, it sounds like I may be able to get the 1:1 seniority pay, but not sure about the $100K bonus if classes are already filling up to March. Any help would be appreciated. I will be applying elsewhere, as well, but not sure if I can pass up the seniority pay. |
Originally Posted by TheRegalEagle
(Post 3575884)
Hey guys,
Forgive me if I’m repeating a previous post…I went back like 6 pages. I’m coming back to Envoy after being away from flying for 8 years. I left for family reasons, but the timing seems to be favoring me coming back now. I just dropped my app a few days ago, but does anyone have any idea how long it takes to hear anything back? I was a junior captain when I left, but reading the posts here sounds like I have a chance to get back to the left seat. Will lack of instrument currency restrict my chances or will they just catch me up in the sim? Plus, it sounds like I may be able to get the 1:1 seniority pay, but not sure about the $100K bonus if classes are already filling up to March. Any help would be appreciated. I will be applying elsewhere, as well, but not sure if I can pass up the seniority pay. I haven't flown for 13 years, I have roughly 5000 hrs of part 121 (half as F/O, half as CA). Before I could be scheduled for an orientation class, I had to schedule a 3-day Jet refresher course, provided by Envoy. When I went for my logbook review in December, there was a mix of applicants, some current, some not. But most qualified for CA. So I would think that you have a good chance, as a former Envoy CA. Lack of currency didn't seem to be an issue, as far as I could tell. In fact, if you read back through this thread, you will find quite a few applicants who haven't flown for several years, like myself. Also, I'm pretty sure the bonus has been extended for another month. I hope this helps ;-) |
Originally Posted by Satoshikitty
(Post 3576033)
When I applied back in November, I received an email with a CJO within 24hrs. To give you a little bit of context:
I haven't flown for 13 years, I have roughly 5000 hrs of part 121 (half as F/O, half as CA). Before I could be scheduled for an orientation class, I had to schedule a 3-day Jet refresher course, provided by Envoy. When I went for my logbook review in December, there was a mix of applicants, some current, some not. But most qualified for CA. So I would think that you have a good chance, as a former Envoy CA. Lack of currency didn't seem to be an issue, as far as I could tell. In fact, if you read back through this thread, you will find quite a few applicants who haven't flown for several years, like myself. Also, I'm pretty sure the bonus has been extended for another month. I hope this helps ;-) |
Originally Posted by Ravenwing
(Post 3575964)
Envoy gave me a CJO in mid December 24 hours after applying. They then revoked my CJO in January two weeks after a logbook review—and that of several other pilots who had been out of flying multiple years—apparently for lack of currency. My guess is after collecting pilots with lots of part 121 time for over six months they are getting pickier. I am choosing to use this as motivation to get instrument current in the hopes of scoring an interview with an LCC. I suspect other regionals might overlook lack of currency in DEC qualified candidates. I figure an IPC will make me more confident going into a new training event and will definitely make me more confident in applying to a wider variety of airlines. Training for the right seat at an LCC sounds more appealing to me than a DEC position even though I have been an RJ captain before. Good luck.
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Questions
I’ve been offered an early February orientation date. I’m on the fence about all of this puzzle. Can someone with some insight about future direct entry captains answer a couple questions? I would like to know how many they are proposing on hiring so I can have some idea of whether i’ll be the last guy, so to speak. Do you know how many classes they run per month or per week and how many people are generally in a class? How many direct entry pilots were in the January classes? Lastly, what is the probability of getting ORD as a base?
It's funny, Envoy talks about quality of life, but there is a huge difference between being based in MIA vs DFW vs ORD, seems they would want to try & give you your preference of bases..... I get that i'll probably be on reserve at the airport for a long time, but i'd rather be in a base where I know people. |
Originally Posted by SFORedwood
(Post 3576883)
I’ve been offered an early February orientation date. I’m on the fence about all of this puzzle. Can someone with some insight about future direct entry captains answer a couple questions? I would like to know how many they are proposing on hiring so I can have some idea of whether i’ll be the last guy, so to speak. Do you know how many classes they run per month or per week and how many people are generally in a class? How many direct entry pilots were in the January classes? Lastly, what is the probability of getting ORD as a base?
It's funny, Envoy talks about quality of life, but there is a huge difference between being based in MIA vs DFW vs ORD, seems they would want to try & give you your preference of bases..... I get that i'll probably be on reserve at the airport for a long time, but i'd rather be in a base where I know people. There is currently a standing vacancy bid for DCL and OCL so hypothetically you could bid OCL day 1. They of course want to try and give you your base of choice, especially as a DEC, but seniority still rules. If you do decide to take it welcome to the team, should have a slushee machine in the crew room any day now :cool: |
Originally Posted by TheRegalEagle
(Post 3576621)
Thanks for the response! Are you thinking of getting your IPC at Flight Safety or do you think going up in a 172 would suffice?
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Originally Posted by TheRegalEagle
(Post 3576620)
Thank you, guys for responding so quickly! I haven’t heard back, yet, I’m assuming because my passport isn’t current. I renewed it earlier this month, but it can take up to 3-5 weeks with expedited service. The jet refresher course would be ideal! I emailed HR and they said it can take up to 2 weeks to get a response. If I don’t hear back, I’ll just throw my resume out everywhere when my passport arrives. Thanks again and fly safe!!!!
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[QUOTE=SFORedwood;3576883]I’ve been offered an early February orientation date. I’m on the fence about all of this puzzle. Can someone with some insight about future direct entry captains answer a couple questions? I would like to know how many they are proposing on hiring so I can have some idea of whether i’ll be the last guy, so to speak. Do you know how many classes they run per month or per week and how many people are generally in a class? How many direct entry pilots were in the January classes? Lastly, what is the probability of getting ORD as a base?
It's funny, Envoy talks about quality of life, but there is a huge difference between being based in MIA vs DFW vs ORD, seems they would want to try & give you your preference of bases..... I get that i'll probably be on reserve at the airport for a long time, but i'd rather be in a base where I know people.[/QUOTE Excerpts from Q4 2022 company letter, it may answer some of your questions: ... We hired a little over 600 new pilots, upgraded almost 400 new Captains and advanced 335 pilots to American Airlines – representing 18% of our pilot seniority list in just one years’ time. This brings us to more than 2,600 Envoy pilots now flying for American Airlines.... ...As we look ahead to 2023, we plan to continue growing our LRJ fleet, targeting 120+ Embraer 170/175 by years end. We are also excited about the opening of our new PHX crew base, targeted for May. PHX crew base is planned to be included in the next vacancy bid. We anticipate the need for another 600 new pilots and another 400 new Captains for 2023. Crew Planning has provided some estimates as to the number of hard lines expected by base and equipment relative to what we have received from AAG. Again, as always, this forecast can change but hopefully it provides some insight to AAGs planned distribution of our operation for the first part of next year... As a DEC, I expect to be on reserve for a couple of years, as DECs are junior to all the FOs who will soon hold CA. From what I gather, DFW and ORD are usually granted, no idea about MIA. |
Originally Posted by SFORedwood
(Post 3576883)
I’ve been offered an early February orientation date. I’m on the fence about all of this puzzle. Can someone with some insight about future direct entry captains answer a couple questions? I would like to know how many they are proposing on hiring so I can have some idea of whether i’ll be the last guy, so to speak. Do you know how many classes they run per month or per week and how many people are generally in a class? How many direct entry pilots were in the January classes? Lastly, what is the probability of getting ORD as a base?
It's funny, Envoy talks about quality of life, but there is a huge difference between being based in MIA vs DFW vs ORD, seems they would want to try & give you your preference of bases..... I get that i'll probably be on reserve at the airport for a long time, but i'd rather be in a base where I know people. Sounds like they are still doing orientations once a month, but don’t have firsthand knowledge. Actual classes are every two weeks. Can’t say how long to get an orientation or from orientation to actual class. The emphasis is still very much on hiring DECs. If you read a few months back, someone said the goal was 500 DECs in 2023. I think Envoy is being VERY optimistic if they think they can hire anything close to that for DECs. They were honestly banking on Mesa being crippled and hiring everyone away. That’s not happening. Just how many they can actually hire is anyone’s guess as the pool of available people is obviously dwindling and with so many other companies offering more competitive packages, fewer people will jump ship as well as have more options elsewhere. Either way, you can expect to be on reserve for a couple of years as a DEC. Just a matter of how bad it will be is based on just how many they can actually hire behind you. As I said, they have lofty goals, but just don’t see that coming to fruition. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 3577157)
What you get as a base is just like anywhere else in a seniority driven system. Junior captain in MIA was hired in December 2019. You can’t get something as a new hire that someone who’s been with the company three years can’t hold. ORD and DFW are now junior and being offered to DECs.
Oh, I understand that. My point is that this is a major decision in most people's lives. If there is a union bid out for X number of positions, just share the information. The company must have some idea of the numbers of pilot vacancies and where they envision they will fall. That should be shared. In a perfect world the job offer should state what base you are initially being assigned. I shouldn't have to quit a current job only to find this out on day one of orientation. |
Originally Posted by SFORedwood
(Post 3577192)
Oh, I understand that. My point is that this is a major decision in most people's lives. If there is a union bid out for X number of positions, just share the information. The company must have some idea of the numbers of pilot vacancies and where they envision they will fall. That should be shared.
In a perfect world the job offer should state what base you are initially being assigned. I shouldn't have to quit a current job only to find this out on day one of orientation. Both DFW and ORD should be offered to DECs in the coming classes until the next vacancy comes out in a few months. Just because you are awarded ORD in class next month doesn’t mean you won’t get displaced to PHX in May and then DFW in October. I never would have thought DFW would be a junior base, but it’s so large now, it is. |
Originally Posted by Sasquatched
(Post 3577334)
After the last vacancy bid there was 74 unfilled CA vacancies between ORD and DFW. The company announced a standing vacancy now for both ORD and DFW.
Both DFW and ORD should be offered to DECs in the coming classes until the next vacancy comes out in a few months. Just because you are awarded ORD in class next month doesn’t mean you won’t get displaced to PHX in May and then DFW in October. I never would have thought DFW would be a junior base, but it’s so large now, it is. |
Originally Posted by SFORedwood
(Post 3577192)
Oh, I understand that. My point is that this is a major decision in most people's lives. If there is a union bid out for X number of positions, just share the information. The company must have some idea of the numbers of pilot vacancies and where they envision they will fall. That should be shared.
In a perfect world the job offer should state what base you are initially being assigned. I shouldn't have to quit a current job only to find this out on day one of orientation. In the case of regionals especially, they don’t even file their own flight plan so to speak. Where they fly is decided by main line and they react accordingly. |
I wonder if any AA pilots on the narrow body have gone back to Envoy to come in at a higher pay rate & collect $100K. Say 1st. or 2nd. year at AA @ $90 or $137 per hour & go to $146 to $213 per hour plus the $100K.
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Originally Posted by SFORedwood
(Post 3578681)
I wonder if any AA pilots on the narrow body have gone back to Envoy to come in at a higher pay rate & collect $100K. Say 1st. or 2nd. year at AA @ $90 or $137 per hour & go to $146 to $213 per hour plus the $100K.
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Originally Posted by Slow2Final
(Post 3578721)
I'd love to meet the idiot that would ever do that.
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Originally Posted by highfarfast
(Post 3578726)
There actually is a narrow age band this makes some sense if you don't mind perpetual junior status. Flow to AA take the flow bonus. Return to WO take the DEC bonus. Then retire.
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Originally Posted by Slow2Final
(Post 3578728)
God bless them. That close to retirement and willing to deal with regional CA reserve for your remainder of time? Crazy.
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What’s the crash pad situation in DFW? Decent variety?
Also, are you offered health care on day 1? thanks |
Originally Posted by SFORedwood
(Post 3578681)
I wonder if any AA pilots on the narrow body have gone back to Envoy to come in at a higher pay rate & collect $100K. Say 1st. or 2nd. year at AA @ $90 or $137 per hour & go to $146 to $213 per hour plus the $100K.
Nah, envoy its still a regional. |
Bad things happen to good people
I can’t start a new thread yet.
So the question is about having a felony record and applying for Envoy. The charges were financial and isolated to his own business. He has 4000TT of which 820hrs are in the Saab 340 and ATR 42/72-600 combined which were at a 121 operation. He has his 1st class medical and is instrument current. His background is very diverse from Navy, 10 yrs Law Enforcement, owning his own business to flying for a part 121 operation for 18 months. He’s turn key. Upgradable in months. “Bad things happen to good people” Should he apply? Maybe if a recruiter sees this thread they can share some insight. |
Originally Posted by Simeoner
(Post 3598480)
I can’t start a new thread yet.
So the question is about having a felony record and applying for Envoy. The charges were financial and isolated to his own business. He has 4000TT of which 820hrs are in the Saab 340 and ATR 42/72-600 combined which were at a 121 operation. He has his 1st class medical and is instrument current. His background is very diverse from Navy, 10 yrs Law Enforcement, owning his own business to flying for a part 121 operation for 18 months. He’s turn key. Upgradable in months. “Bad things happen to good people” Should he apply? Maybe if a recruiter sees this thread they can share some insight. See my response to your other post. 1. Financial crime (ie theft) is going to be tough because they'll assume dishonest intent. You will need professional airline interview prep to learn how to address that correctly. They'd be more understanding of a DUI or even a bar fight. 2. Again, you have to take the attitude of taking responsibility, not "poop happens". It's possible your accountant screwed up, you didn't understand tax laws, etc, etc, etc and did not actually mean to commit a crime but you need to take responsibility regardless. If nothing else, for inadequate oversight, management or research. Normally your chances would be slim, but with the pilot shortage regionals are desperate for CA eligible pilots so you have that going for you. I'd say a regional will *want* to hire but they will also need to see how you address the situation. It would help if there's no prison history, ex-con flying an airliner is a PR nightmare for an airline. I think you have a decent shot at a regional, but if you hope to move on to a major that will be harder... but LCC's are getting desperate too so if you get a couple years of good performance under your belt at a regional that would be possible IMO. Don not submit any airline applications until after you get professional interview help... you have to address this in a specific manner and you can never take back anything you submit on an app. |
Rickair777 I don’t disagree with you. It’s all about being honest. I have no desire to go to a legacy. I can articulate my situation during the interview and will just have to sell the fact I’ve taken the responsibility. There will be no poop attitude as you call it when I start applying.
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Originally Posted by Simeoner
(Post 3598714)
Rickair777 I don’t disagree with you. It’s all about being honest. I have no desire to go to a legacy. I can articulate my situation during the interview and will just have to sell the fact I’ve taken the responsibility. There will be no poop attitude as you call it when I start applying.
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How far out date class?
Hello!!! I have an interview with Envoy next week. Do you guys know how far are are they giving class dates?
Thank you in advance. |
How far are the class dates right now?
Hello!!!
I was wondering how far are the start class dates right now. I have an interview with Envoy next week. thank you. |
Originally Posted by Davidcabrera
(Post 3611337)
Hello!!!
I was wondering how far are the start class dates right now. I have an interview with Envoy next week. thank you. It should take 10-14 days after your interview to clear the Captain Review Board and initial background check. Most of the DECs have been getting an Orientation date, the day you go on pay roll, around 3-6 weeks later. So maybe 7 weeks or so after the interview. Your Indoc date could be 2-6 weeks after Orientation depending on your class seniority but you will be paid and given a study packet and a few onboarding tasks to do at home. |
Last I heard Envoy was filling the April 13th Orientation date. They have a new hire pilot orientation once a month and Indoc class every two weeks; Indoc is assigned after Orientation.
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I got a call from a recruiter two weeks ago stating they are now back to hiring FOs, but still no word on a class date. I applied in oct and got a CJO in November. Does anyone who is non 121 FO have any luck securing a class date recently ?
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I am prior Part 121 and had Orientation March 9th. My observation is that the training department has been scheduling somewhat last minute; I received email confirmation of an orientation date I had heard by phone exactly two weeks prior to that date along with a request for more paperwork. I received travel plans the day before I departed. Prior groups got Indoc dates at Orientation, we were told what dates to expect and I received confirmation of mine a week later. Envoy isn’t scheduling months out like everyone else.
The next Orientation date is April 13th. If you are on their firm list for this date you can expect to hear more by email on March 30th. I have heard of some cadets receiving less than two weeks notice, so it is possible Envoy will offer this date to more pilots closer in as they finalize numbers and plans. They are probably still prioritizing prior Part 121 pilots and hoping to fit in others too, maybe they discovered their hiring pool mostly went elsewhere and are now replacing them. If you are in their hiring pool and can accept less than two weeks notice, I would email your recruiters and remind them after March 30th. I would guess the May Orientation date will be May 11th or 18th since it is always on a Thursday. As a pilot you are always going to be a number to your employer, they may expect loyalty but they won’t give you loyalty in return and they don’t care about what is fair. Until you are actually in Orientation you don’t have a firm spot on Envoy’s training list or pilot seniority list. The good thing is that with Envoy’s orientation system they start paying you up to six weeks before you actually start ground school. |
Originally Posted by Davidcabrera
(Post 3611337)
Hello!!!
I was wondering how far are the start class dates right now. I have an interview with Envoy next week. thank you. |
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