You earn the retention bonus by upgrading to captain and then either flowing to AA or declining flow and staying at Envoy. You earn the new-hire bonus by completing training. They state that clearly. New hire bonuses have been one thing they have never lied about in my 5.5 years at this company. Word would spread pretty fast if that turned out to be a lie. ALPA would be one of the loudest voices sounding the alarm.

Wanna bet?

Show me a screen shot of where it says they are separate and outlines WHAT makes up the bonus.

According to the hiring folks at AA (and United), the AA WO pilots make up one of the smallest percentages of application groups as compared to other regional airlines. Not sure why AA WO regional pilots are so opposed to just putting their apps in elsewhere, but they don't seem to want to do it.

Everyone should have an app in once they hit about 750 hours with their regional, and update regularly as they upgrade and start accumulating TPIC time. Update it every 2 weeks.

The problem is that when you "half" the regionals, you are taking the top half off as the majority of the hires will be captains.

For easy math, let's say there is a fictions airline that has 1000 actual line captains (with medical, not on leave, and actually flying every month.) Then, in a 5 month span, they lose 200 captains (40 per month). The airline will start to park airplanes because they can not staff the flying. Thus, fewer FOs will be needed. They will do everything that they can to hire street captains and to upgrade all of the FOs that are eligible. Huge bonuses for street captains (as you see now at several carriers) will pop up, and the airlines will do everything that they can to prevent pilots from leaving (huge retention bonuses, as you see now).

Then they lose another 200.

Then another 200.

The attrition will be faster than FO's can fly 1000 hours and upgrade to captain.

Think about it. It takes at least 2 years of busy flying to really become a captain (initial training, IOE, building time, then upgrade training, OE). In the matter of 1 year, the regionals could lose +6000 captains, and at 18 months, lose closer to 10,000. Losing captains that aren't replaced means fewer flights, which means fewer FO's building time, which means fewer FO's eligible to upgrade in the future. It is a vicious cycle.

If the regionals lose 10,000 pilots to the majors, they will be much smaller than 1/2 the size that they are now. They might be a 1/4 of the size. The cycle has already started, as is evident by the huge retention and street captain bonuses.

Try the page I already linked. The LOA states this:

”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”

Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.

The company loves that their ambiguous post is making you give them free advertising. There is no 182k bonus for new hires.

The page you linked goes straight to the application which says nothing.

The LOA says nothing about a new hire bonus because that LOA applies to those who are seniority list pilots, not new hires.

No where does anything define what comprises the “$182.5K” or when you will receive it…. Because part of it is the $150K that is part of the new LOA.

Dude, believe what you want. You’re wrong. Not going to waste any more time trying to convince you now, you’ll figure it out later, as will anyone else foolish enough to believe your spin.

And here I was, thinking I was talking to someone on the outside.
But I was just responding to a troll already at Envoy.
I probably know you, give me a high five next time, I will admit defeat.

Somebody gets it, and explained it well too....

Back on topic. As the need for pilots expands, Envoy has pulled out all the stops and is offering $150,000 in bonuses on top of regular pay. Truthfully, we now have thousands of apps on file with the regular applicants and cadets. It's just a matter of finding the right hire and the environment is competitive. The cadet program is soaring and we are getting tons of qualified apps from fixed wing and RTP military guys in addition to Part 61 type flight instructors and guys who have already been flying 135. Overall, Envoy is having zero problem recruiting, again, it's just a matter of making the right hire.

I love how you go round and round contradicting yourself in one small paragraph, impressive really.

Envoy RTP has been shut down for awhile hasn't it?

Surely you can’t still possess a valid medical. Not only are you delusional, but all that KoolAid has to have made you diabetic by now!

fart noise

You're completely right.... CommutAir experienced this for a minute this summer when they stopped getting EXJ captains.... During the previous 18 months their FOs hadn't flown enough to upgrade..... We've lost so many captains and LCAs... the LCAs still around are ONLY doing IOE for the upgrades that are coming through. I passed my checkride on 19 July.... Haven't been contacted about IOE yet... Everyone says- enjoy your paid vacation! Yeah, after taxes and health insurance I'm getting about 2100 a month. Doesn't cover the bills. I've got 1k hours part 121(E175) but opted to go through training as an FO rather than captain due to being out of the cockpit for over a year and not being familiar with the E145 (or C5's turboprop procedures) I was planning to upgrade right after consolidation but now looks like there's gonna be 30-40 of us that won't make it through consolidation. I should have been in upgrade this month...
So here I find myself strolling around Envoy forums waiting to see how your vacancy plays out. DEC on 175 in DFW???? LOL Probably wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking indeed. You’d permanently reserve on the 145 for sure and probably a good long stint at ORD if we go the DEC route again.

Everything said about DECs living in continual hell for a few years is definitely true, BUT it will probably be 18 months before ENY needs DECs again and that all depends on what happens between now and then. As we have seen, things can change literally almost over night.

lol how do you figure 18 months?

I think it’s tough to tell. We have 500 FOs legal for upgrade right now, I would guess we’ll probably upgrade 100 a quarter for the next year…but we should also have another 2-300 meet the hours. Pretty much everyone who didn’t get furlough should have the hours by January 2023.

I think it all depends on junior CA/senior FO attrition. If it stays 15-25/mo we may be doing forced upgrades this time next year

2000+ seniority guys are getting hired at majors. It's not staying at 15-25/mo, it will go up.

It’s a SWAG, based on a finely calibrated E6B and abacus while looking at the past happenings and peering into a foggy crystal ball through RayBans.

It went down since august. It was only 27 in September

Nice to know, totally missed that email from ALPA

In 2022, all the majors (PAX and Freight Dogs) plus the LCCs are forecast to hire 9,000. After hiring ex military and other sources of pilots (charter, etc.), that translates to a net of about 1/3 of all the regional pilots.

would be interesting to know whats next if the % of all active captains that turn in the repayment agreement is low. They’re really pushing for it

Yep. If you’re eligible now, you have to sign it and take it NOW, or not at all.

I haven’t seen it published anywhere. It was noted in a P2P meeting I saw notes from

come to Breeze.

So out of curiosity, what do you all think would be the smart/best next step for a 23 year old Regional FO with 2,500 hours, 1,000 of which are 121 SIC (the rest were PIC as CFI) with a 4 year degree, no background issues, able to live anywhere (can move to whatever base). Only downside is straight white male, so no diversity boxes checked.

Upgrade immediately at the regional, 2500 is low for hours so likely tough to get hired anywhere else. After you upgrade and start building PIC, forget the "you need 1000" mantra, people are getting hired everywhere without 1000 TPIC. Just GTFO the regionals.

Spirit, Frontier, Jetblue, United, AA, ACMI. Apply everywhere, and leave the regional immediately when you can. Get more hours and experience elsewhere, life is much better that way.

lol, you didn't say you were single but I got the impression you were based on post. I'd join the gay pilot's association and go to their job fairs. Recruiters won't know you're not. May not help but you never know.

have you thought about sucking some … well nevermind

upgrade
apply to the big 6
take the first offer. It will come soon

What is Envoy's current flow number per month? Is it 15?

The last group to flow was 20. Probably shift to 19 for January as the next group has a different contractual amount based on seniority list size.

Meanwhile over at psa there’s a floating rumor that the flow might increase from 10 to 10.5 per month. I guess you could say we’re kind of a big deal over here….

I'd hate to be that guy that flowed half of myself one month and the other half had to wait until next month. Sounds painful.

It’s not too bad… you just go to class all day at AA then go back and fly CDO’s all night for your regional for the month.

Real simple. You use the axe to split the 11th pilot in two. Half this month. Drag the other half of the body into class the next month.

Which one of you is more senior though!?!?!?!