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Originally Posted by Bzzt
(Post 1701594)
We didn't really stand up for ourselves, we made a poor decision based on anger and misinformation about a "pilot shortage". It was the wrong choice and now we are facing the consequences of our decision.
As far as my advice to the PDT pilots, I'd never advise someone else to hurt themselves for my personal gain. You're absolutely correct that if PDT accepts the contract our meager chance at survival is squashed, but we made a choice and it's not up to the PDT pilots to save us. I haven't seem their proposed deal but it is likely that the 12/4 pay cap for them is still a raise, that coupled with the flow to AA that was once proposed to us would be a good deal for them. |
Originally Posted by Bzzt
(Post 1701594)
We didn't really stand up for ourselves, we made a poor decision based on anger and misinformation about a "pilot shortage". It was the wrong choice and now we are facing the consequences of our decision.
You and your Jerry Glass stockholm syndrome mindset needs get off the internet, relax, figure out what makes you happy in life, and go do it for about a week. You wouldn't happen to be Loadmaster on EagleLounge would you? I'm sorry that you lost your fight but maybe you are in the wrong career. There will be a whole lot more of this at whatever major you end up at and you need to be ready for it. |
Originally Posted by AnotherEagleGuy
(Post 1701715)
Talk about a severe case of defeatism. We did stand up for ourselves, we knew the consequences, and it was not based on anger or misinformation. Most importantly, it was not the wrong choice.
You and your Jerry Glass stockholm syndrome mindset needs get off the internet, relax, figure out what makes you happy in life, and go do it for about a week. You wouldn't happen to be Loadmaster on EagleLounge would you? I'm sorry that you lost your fight but maybe you are in the wrong career. There will be a whole lot more of this at whatever major you end up at and you need to be ready for it. Anyway I just like to come on here and gloat about being right, envoy will shrink to oblivion and this valiant stand against the evil corporation will have changed nothing. |
Originally Posted by AnotherEagleGuy
(Post 1701715)
You wouldn't happen to be Loadmaster on EagleLounge would you?
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Originally Posted by Bzzt
(Post 1701742)
It's a common misconception among union jobs that you have some sort of "power". The power lies in the hands of the shareholders, not you, not your boss, not even the CEO. There is no fight to be had, you'll be compensated based on what market factors dictate.
Anyway I just like to come on here and gloat about being right, envoy will shrink to oblivion and this valiant stand against the evil corporation will have changed nothing. |
Originally Posted by tom11011
(Post 1701766)
Let's face it, I don't think you care either way though right? :D
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Envoy and the regional model is about to fail. Anyone who doesn't recognize that is in for a hard ride. Simple as that! The less than 70-90 seat market is not competitive.
Richard Anderson, Delta CEO is on CNN Money today and stated, "Well we're going through a massive transformation right now at Delta and we're turning Delta back into a mainline airline, what that means is we're upgaging the fleet, and we're growing the mainline airline, which is airplanes flown and operated by Delta employees, and dramatically reducing the connection operation, rather than what has happened in this industry in the last 25 years which is we've put too many people on 50 seat jets for 1000 miles." Why - Economics of the airplane, customer expectations, and market we would have served with 10 50 seats replace with 6 of a larger airplane. With fewest canceled flights, Delta wins best title - Aug. 8, 2014 The DOT transportation statistics bear this out. Mainlines are moving their operation BACK to mainline and away from regional flying. Majors know they can't get enough pilots (at regionals), they know they can't keep paying these rates, they know they can't control the regionals as they begin to fail and they recognize that there is more efficiency and dependability (less moving parts so to speak) in a mainline only operation... Listen for yourself. That's why I posted the link. Watch the video for the comments --- not in the text version below the video. Richard Quest interviewing Richard Anderson at Hartsfield in ATL. Also, I think ALPA knows and wants the exact same thing!!! and so should you. UNTIL this happens, we will not be in the type of paid profession we all spent a lot of money and sweat to get to. The sooner this happens, in my humble opinion, the better! Why Delta and why now...Anderson's the best CEO an airline has seen in decades...Most Delta pilots will tell you that. Delta and its employees making money hand over fist, he's monetized almost everything... Delta is leading the pack...watch what they are doing (and their related feed) --- (wonder why SkyWest is getting rid of 155 CRJ-200 airplanes in the next 18 months....now you know). AA (and AE) has traditionally been last to embrace change...but my bet with this merger is they do it sooner than later to try to not fall too far behind Delta (as right after mergers a company is best positioned to benefit)... And yes, I'm an Eagle/Envoy pilot not a Delta or XJet plant hovering in this chat room! |
Originally Posted by JetPilotMan
(Post 1701783)
Envoy and the regional model is about to fail. Anyone who doesn't recognize that is in for a hard ride. Simple as that! The less than 70-90 seat market is not competitive.
Richard Anderson, Delta CEO is on CNN Money today and stated, "Well we're going through a massive transformation right now at Delta and we're turning Delta back into a mainline airline, what that means is we're upgaging the fleet, and we're growing the mainline airline, which is airplanes flown and operated by Delta employees, and dramatically reducing the connection operation, rather than what has happened in this industry in the last 25 years which is we've put too many people on 50 seat jets for 1000 miles." Why - Economics of the airplane, customer expectations, and market we would have served with 10 50 seats replace with 6 of a larger airplane. With fewest canceled flights, Delta wins best title - Aug. 8, 2014 The DOT transportation statistics bear this out. Mainlines are moving their operation BACK to mainline and away from regional. They know they can't get enough pilots, they know they can't keep paying these rates, they know they can't control the regionals as they begin to fail and they recognize that there is more efficiency and dependability (less moving parts so to speak) in a mainline only operation... Listen for yourself. That's why I posted the link. Also, I think ALPA knows and wants the exact same thing!!! and so should you. UNTIL this happens, we will not be in the type of paid profession we all spent a lot of money and sweat to get to. The sooner this happens, in my humble opinion, the better! Why Delta and why now...Anderson's the best CEO an airline has seen in decades...Most Delta pilots will tell you that. They are making money hand over fist, he's monetized almost everything... Delta is leading the pack...watch what they are doing (and their related feed) --- (wonder why SkyWest is getting rid of 155 CRJ-200 airplanes in the next 18 months....now you know. And yes, I'm an Eagle/Envoy pilot not a Delta or XJet plant hovering in this chat room! |
Originally Posted by JetPilotMan
(Post 1701783)
Envoy and the regional model is about to fail. Anyone who doesn't recognize that is in for a hard ride. Simple as that! The less than 70-90 seat market is not competitive.
Richard Anderson, Delta CEO is on CNN Money today and stated, "Well we're going through a massive transformation right now at Delta and we're turning Delta back into a mainline airline, what that means is we're upgaging the fleet, and we're growing the mainline airline, which is airplanes flown and operated by Delta employees, and dramatically reducing the connection operation, rather than what has happened in this industry in the last 25 years which is we've put too many people on 50 seat jets for 1000 miles." Why - Economics of the airplane, customer expectations, and market we would have served with 10 50 seats replace with 6 of a larger airplane. With fewest canceled flights, Delta wins best title - Aug. 8, 2014 The DOT transportation statistics bear this out. Mainlines are moving their operation BACK to mainline and away from regional flying. Majors know they can't get enough pilots (at regionals), they know they can't keep paying these rates, they know they can't control the regionals as they begin to fail and they recognize that there is more efficiency and dependability (less moving parts so to speak) in a mainline only operation... Listen for yourself. That's why I posted the link. Watch the video for the comments --- not in the text version below the video. Richard Quest interviewing Richard Anderson at Hartsfield in ATL. Also, I think ALPA knows and wants the exact same thing!!! and so should you. UNTIL this happens, we will not be in the type of paid profession we all spent a lot of money and sweat to get to. The sooner this happens, in my humble opinion, the better! Why Delta and why now...Anderson's the best CEO an airline has seen in decades...Most Delta pilots will tell you that. Delta and its employees making money hand over fist, he's monetized almost everything... Delta is leading the pack...watch what they are doing (and their related feed) --- (wonder why SkyWest is getting rid of 155 CRJ-200 airplanes in the next 18 months....now you know). AA (and AE) has traditionally been last to embrace change...but my bet with this merger is they do it sooner than later to try to not fall too far behind Delta (as right after mergers a company is best positioned to benefit)... And yes, I'm an Eagle/Envoy pilot not a Delta or XJet plant hovering in this chat room! Get your facts straight. |
Originally Posted by Bzzt
(Post 1701793)
I can see that market trend but there will always be some market for truly "regional" feed. I think Envoy could have filled that niche and given stable employment to those of us who want to stay here, I fear that opportunity is gone now.
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