The useful Envoy thread
 

Reserved for actual information to help those that are currently at envoy or looking to get in!
Go!

Good luck with that. The other threads have been very entertaining.:)

Worth a shot I guess.... We'll see how long it lasts.

Just pay the money and hang out on eagle lounge. Can't wait til this thread gets put out of it's misery like our company.

The rage is strong on that board, and they allow politics and religion, plus the mixing of the two. No thanks! That place is more toxic than any of the threads here.

Re: PBS. Gimme the pay hit. I'll take it to avoid PBS. I want my REAL DTS, the ability to bid conflicts and NOT allow the company to build my training into my days off.

Hiring - a rumor I heard that envoy reall isn't interested in hiring anyone right now, just "token" new hires. Can't get any more info than that.

Flew with a recruiter a few weeks ago, they've been attending all the job fairs and setting up the pipeline instructor program with more and more universities every month. They still offer the 5k bonus and 10k bonus to new hires from those schools so it seems they're trying to hire but with little success given our current situation...

Are you kidding? This place is FAR worse. There are no trolls over there, no PeeSA cowards giving their useless opinions, and generally there's just far less bs.

Unless you were a yes voter on the TA. Then they probably unleashed all hell on you.

I can see how Mike Fox feels about PBS. But what are some of the things you did'nt like after using it for seven years?

Cue the FaceBiter

1. Training, vacation, etc are put on your schedule before bidding.
2. No open time = no trading
3. For every action you you input there is a reaction, say no in pbs and it declares nuclear war on you.
4. No open time = less reserves, less reserves = more JMS and extensions
5. It will and does stray from your bid
6. Vacation months can have close to min days off.
7. That should be enough to convince a no vote

Are there any new hires out there that can confirm the accuracy of the gouge on AirlinePilotCentral’s American Eagle page?

Hoping for an answer.. I will be taking envoy out of ORD a little more often. I have had trouble with ORD gate agents in the past. If I list for a flight and end up needing to get on an earlier or later flight can/will the gate agent switch me with the origional confirmation or do I need to list for the new flight I'd like to take?

Thanks

What's the story with ORD gate agents? I may be needing to use ORD for jump seating on SkyWest.

I haven't been there in years. I quit due to to the political rhetoric, posting of L-R wingnut spam, and the fact that pretty much any post devolved into calling someone an idiot within the first three replies.

Has the moderation cracked down? I certainly doubt attitudes have improved or people have had a kumbaya moment, I still see some of the usual suspects when I load the main page.

Mesa possibly coming to DFW?...


Maintenance job at Mesa Airlines - Aircraft Inspector - DFW

Most of that is because of your contract language for PBS...

Maybe I'll (literally) pay a visit again.

OK, and *** to do you think, the company is going to negotiate language good for us. Pbs still sucks. No matter it reduces pilots, reduces open time to nil almost, so trading is gone. I have far more freedom with hard lines then I ever did with pbs, and yes I was able to get Sr. With pbs.

Side track here. Is the Dfw crj flying not the worse flying you have ever done.

That seems to be all flying now both EMB and CRJ. Less and less commutable lines every month, longer sits, etc. this place is a mess.

#1 is very TRUE
#2 is true only to an extent. It will mean LESS trading flexibility for sure though.
#3 I don't really believe that to be true, from MY experiences with multiple PBS systems.
#4 Yes they need less RSV's, but I have actually experienced LESS JM and extensions with PBS vs. paper bidding. Again, those are MY experiences.
#5 PBS is a function of seniority. What you are saying, does happen, but only because a person is not bidding properly and/or as a function of their seniority
#6 is also true, unless you are very junior(junior pilots will not see a difference since they were getting close to min days off anyway). Your schedules as a more senior pilot will be WORSE than expected during vacation months. It is very dependent on how much credit and/or virtual credit is given for vacation time. If PBS is coming your way and there is nothing you can do to stop it, at least fight for 30 HRS credit (or virtual credit) for each week of vacation.

Well so far PBS has been working great for myself but I hardly ever work any open time or bid conflicts. What do you mean by "it declares nuclear war on you" when you say no?

I am firmly against PBS...but with that said it's not like trading for open time is useful right now.

I have nothing against those who pick up OT but it screws up trips in open time. They come along and scavenge the first and/or last turn of a trip. So now a 4 day trip that used to be worth 18+ hours is only worth 12 to 13 if you are lucky.

No way anybody can trade and lose all that time. A quick look at the trips in open time and you will see that trend. Add to that swaps & drops has been denying EVERYTHING for at least the past year.

The only chance of trip trading anything decent right now is during the TTOT window before all the OT heroes come along and pick apart trips.

Actually I do trade down from 18 to 12 hours because I refuse to spend the night before or the night after in base because I can't commute home.

Our biggest problem with PBS is that we have no language protecting us in our contract. We don't have a min value for a day, we don't have a trip or duty rig, etc. unless we get those things I am 100% a no vote for PBS.

Not sure who you work for, but if its eagle you realize the test are false since not everyone is bidding in front of you, And wait till vacation month comes

PBS can be designed in multiple ways...it just depends on how you and the company agree to implement PBS, and what the details will be. There is no problem bidding for training and trading trips, IF the PBS system you implement is designed to do those things.

Having a daily rig, along with a line/award guarantee is a very nice thing to have...multiple rigs are even better...

Envoy's will almost certainly have none of these. All PBS will do here is allow management to do more with less. Less need for captains, no DTS, no conflicts, essentially nothing for most. Hearing from those doing parallel bidding, it supposedly has been awful. I cannot fathom why this pilot group would be inclined to give this management another gift considering the treatment they've gotten so far.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but perhaps you should let those of us actually at Envoy worry about it.

Those of us who are still here and directly affected by our choices thank you for your concern...but its not needed.

As a staunch yes voter for everything that had come down the pike and one who rarely agrees with me, your sentiments aren't a surprise. I'm sorry, but one of the common denominators of this forum is the opportunity for all to join any thread or comment on any topic. Working for the carrier in question isn't required nor suggested.

Thanks for your interest in controlling me, but it is not needed. :cool: I'm sure you're going to have as tough a time surreptitiously selling PBS as you were the failed TA and the B-scale before that.

Which will be coming in the Fall at the earliest if at all. People here desperately want some news, it's why Mason was so popular. I respect the pilot group's decision in voting no on the AIP but I feel there are some who weren't prepared to deal with the potential consequences.

I can only confirm Gouge on willflyforfood is correct and accurate up to approximately 1.5 years ago but the mypilotcareer gouge is outdated. The recruiters at the hiring events are pushing hard. And even going through the process, Envoy is still only selecting 50% or so from each interview pool. From the flight training rank and file there is a lot of fear about the industry in general right now.

I am thankful that I didn't just judge my opinion on whether to select Envoy based on the boards, luckily I had a few local FOs (Miami Based) give me their opinion. And yes I know very well about the fuzziness of what may or may not happen. I have a few months to call back to confirm a ground school date (personal commitments first). Until then I'll hold my offer letter tightly and keep my ears to the ground.

The useful envoy thread
 

Anybody who voted no and wasn't prepared for, at minimum, fleet reductions or at worst, airline shutdown needs a reality check and to hold themselves responsible for their vote.

That said, those of us that were prepared for the consequences are surprised and dismayed at the lousy schedules that should have nothing to do with the no vote, and the insulting repeated grabs for more concessions by the company while offering us no real gains. I stress "real", because I mean it in the sense that nothing offered was concrete. It was all risk.

The repeated attempts by the company are always the same.

Let's work together.

We want to be a team.

You're valuable.

We can build something we both can work with.

Now give us all your money and here's a lottery ticket. Maybe it's a winner, but statistically and historically, you're gonna get screwed.

This really shouldn't be any surprise though. Expertly talking the talk, but failing to walk the walk has been their M.O. there for decades. Retaliating against you for refusing to capitulate isn't a surprise either. I think they'll continue to tighten the screws until they think you're collectively ready to cry uncle. Think of it like a cat batting around a mouse until it tires. Once exhausted, the mouse gives in.

Ya gotta think that Parker is wearing the Envoy pilot group down with these continuous delays. He awarded the first 20 new jets to Compass and that bought him A LOT of time to allow the (larger and more important) Envoy pilot group to reconsider/regret in their vote.

The more anxious Envoy pilots act, the less he's gonna offer them in the next round. So control yourselves and CALM THE HELL DOWN!!!!

Mod note:

I have deleted several posts that are inappropriate, flamebaitish and don't pass my sniff test. You know if that was your post or not. Next time I see something like that, I will delete the post and ban the poster.

Remember, you can always start your own website. Or just go away.

Probably a better idea than just unilaterally closing a thread. Also glad you were able to make a moderation with out complaining about your job (as a mod) or juvenile insults.

Exactly, the 20 to compass bought them a lot of time. 20 airplanes starting delivery next year gives them a while. Dont forget, RAH still has another 15 or so to come online as well. I am not expecting anything anytime soon... and I am okay with that. For once I have stopped bringing this job home with me to the dinner table, on walks or other conversation.

As has been brought up though, that gives time for the current union leadership to move on. Some people blame them for that (RJ Pilot). Not sure how that makes sense. But what we need now is to make sure we keep the people with the "right stuff" coming in.

Smart man...and the smartest "envoy" post in a long while.

Tip of the hat to you!

Pass the word, patriotic ties on all envoy pilots by aug 1

I am going insane wondering if 175's will every show up on property at dfw and i havnt even started my career yet! I can't imagine how envoy pilots feel. Is there no way to know when management will give a definitive answer or keep stringing you guys along?:mad:

There is no way to know. It's very annoying but par for the course.