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-   -   ENVOY presented with details on new contract (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/84783-envoy-presented-details-new-contract.html)

thump 12-10-2014 05:00 AM


Originally Posted by paxhauler85 (Post 1780040)
You're forgetting a very important part of this equation: scope. Mainline carriers have scope language that prevents the airline from transferring their airplanes to other carriers. Regional carriers don't have this language; never have.

RAH has that language.

CBreezy 12-10-2014 05:03 AM


Originally Posted by thump (Post 1780046)
RAH has that language.

I'm sure it's on the airplanes you own, not on the airplanes provided by the partner.

RgrMurdock 12-10-2014 05:03 AM


Originally Posted by thump (Post 1780046)
RAH has that language.

No they don't. They have alter ego language. Way different.

logic1 12-10-2014 05:17 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1780032)
It's not your flying. It never was. It's United flying. Those airplanes were being parked and your company turned down a proposal to fly them. That's not scabs. That's being too expensive. Calling TSA pilots scabs is absolutely moronic and if you believe they are, you should do your pilot group a favor and stop Union volunteering. You're making them all look at stupid as you sound. Just remember, your existence in an RJ is solely because you offered to fly cheaper than a legacy pilot. Pot meet kettle

Your existence in an RJ is because the legacy pilot sold it.

Maverick 12-10-2014 05:38 AM

Base closing
 
With only 40 aircraft there is no protection in this TA for say every pilot to be JFK based or DFW. Something to think about. If you live in ORD then they close it as a base because republic is doing all the e175 flying there and Trans states is covering the remaing???? I'd want to know where they plan on basing these. I know it can change
But let's protect ourselves from more Base closings

fisherman 12-10-2014 06:28 AM

The E175 pay in this TA is shameful, disgusting, and embarrassing. It is abominable that E175 pay will be this low.

buddies8 12-10-2014 07:08 AM

Paxhauler, envoy did have that language until 2010 when the then mec lied to the pilot group and it was changed.

fisherman 12-10-2014 07:43 AM

I hate this company. It is sad how a few ******** took over this company with the blessing of AA employee unions, and how they have systematically destroyed Eagle. What a horrible career.

CaptainNameless 12-10-2014 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by paxhauler85 (Post 1780040)
You're forgetting a very important part of this equation: scope. Mainline carriers have scope language that prevents the airline from transferring their airplanes to other carriers. Regional carriers don't have this language; never have. In many cases this is due to having no leverage to get it, since the parent or code share airline owns the airplanes the regional flies.

During the last round of contract negotiations, Compass tried to secure language that tied us to our (at the time) 42 airplanes. This was a non-starter because Delta owns the airplanes and they don't want to be limited in their ability to make moves like AA is currently doing.

A likely response would be, "tell them we won't sign a deal without this scope language." Unfortunately, the mainline carrier will then pack up and take its airplanes elsewhere.

That's my whole point. No FFD owns ANY work. Promise of airplanes to fly (until they decide to move them) is an impossible condition to negotiate fair contracts, or ever be an equal-status union pilot, if other pilots have the protection of true scope. That's the failure of ALPA! FFD conferences to discuss this will not ever improve anything if the best they can figure to do is have the MEC chairman write a letter that basically tells the leaving scum pilots to not leave because it makes you look scummy, even if you think it will help you skip the cue to mainline.

My slam at TSA is at the new hire guys leaving one ALPA carrier to chase the same freaking job (soon same airplanes) at another. Call them scums if you care, whatever. How does that make you a good ALPA pilot? How does chasing promise of quick PIC help the position of fellow pilots you choose to abandon at your current airline? How is that not scabbing, if you are weakening fellow pilots to advance yourself? New list of names should be taken.

PDTpilotXX 12-10-2014 08:01 AM


Originally Posted by CaptainNameless (Post 1780201)
That's my whole point. No FFD owns ANY work. That's the failure of ALPA!

My slam at TSA is at the new hire guys leaving one ALPA carrier to chase the same freaking job (same airplanes) at another. Call them scums if you care, whatever. How does that make you a good ALPA pilot? How does chasing promise of quick PIC help the position of fellow pilots you choose to abandon at your current airline? How is that not scabbing, if you are weakening fellow pilots to advance yourself? New list of names should be taken.

Says captainnameless. Sorry that's kinda funny. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...


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