this the person to thank for the B-scale at AAG-Tony Gutierrez former envoy ALPA MEC Chairman now persona non grata at AA.

In diplomacy, the term persona non grata (Latin, plural: personae non gratae), literally meaning "an unwelcome person,"

And where do you get the basis for that conclusion? The pessimists who claim we are gone regardless don't have much basis in fact, but are playing on what the company has done to promote the fear.

Yea, bad information. And here is some 'experience'. I don't buy the premise. The pilot shortage will not save us at this point. THAT is why the company is moving on either getting us on board or eliminating us this early PRIOR to the real shortage hitting in about two years.

There has been a lot said about not basing decisions like how to vote on 'fear'. I agree, but it isn't fear that tells you that you don't have enough fuel to get where you want to go. It is ration and logic and numbers, tangible facts. And we cannot win this fight just by throwing a tantrum. We will all only end up losing a job.

We have to pick our battles, and pick the ones we can win, not the ones destined to lose. So with 'fear' we can also add 'anger', another EMOTION which is the broader subject category which has no place in making important decisions, whether flying airplanes, choosing stock market movements,...or how we should vote in the next couple weeks.

does anyone think AAG is worried about millions while making billions??
can you fathom the order of magnitude this represents?

In NASCAR ounces make pounds

airlines management does not care in hull losses, it is all part of business. why would they care about anything after that.

While oil is $57 a barrel and crashing, I don't know how anybody can consider voting in concessions. You are basically just voting in a bigger bonus for Parker and his homies. Last I heard, he just finished his 4th bathroom made out of pure gold with the PSA deal.

It wasn't unrealistic expectations. The Envoy guys/gals were asked to take concessions AFTER they had already given concessions in bankruptcy from a company that is making bucketfuls of money. The Envoy pilots told them twice NO, knowing full well that their airline might be sacrificed by their votes.

I do believe you are correct in that perhaps they would have been better off saying yes the first time around *IF* they're going to make a 180 and suddenly vote yes on this TA- hindsight is certainly 20/20. What is confusing to me is that there appeared to be a he11 no slant on these Envoy threads to the first two TAs, but now there's more hesitation with this new TA. If a group is going to take a "burn it down" mentality, you gotta follow through I think. Otherwise, why not just say yes the first time around and save everyone some pain? Doesn't make sense. That's why I was asking a bunch of posts back what's changed with this new TA. I thought they got some sort of sweetener that was making the castor oil taste better.

Stepping back and observing the big picture, is there any wonder why young people don't want to enter this profession?

Any news from that phone conference tonight? Anything worth mentioning?

It is permissible to drop the "F" bomb on Union teleconferences, but only by the MEC chair.

Just received this e-mail from Envoy.

Envoy Air Inc. and its pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, have reached a Tentative Agreement (TA). If ratified by the pilot group, this TA will offer increased flow to American Airlines for current Envoy pilots, a fleet commitment of 40 Embraer 175 aircraft, and an additional 90 Embraer 175 options. This agreement will also offer flow through to future new hire pilots. No interview is necessary to flow to American Airlines. The tenants of this TA make this an industry leading flow through agreement.

Pilots who have not yet reached the ATP minimum flight time can still apply and be considered for an interview. Selected pilots will be placed into new hire training once ATP requirements are met. We are hiring into both First Officer positions and our Pipeline Instructor Program. Apply today to get your career started with Envoy!

For more information regarding the Pipeline Instructor Program or First Officer positions with Envoy, please visit our website at Envoy Careers LP | Envoy. With questions regarding employment openings please email us at [email protected] or [email protected].