This TA won't pass. AAG won't be able to replace all the codeshare flying (w/jetblue etc) which has to be given up as part of the merger deal and on top of that find someone to fly their 100+ E-jets.

If they really wanted this TA to pass they would offer:
~ 30k bonus like Endeavor
~ 150 minimum fleet guarantee

AAG will have to spend millions to replace us and it's going to cost them. We will all have jobs and go work for AAG's biggest competitors. AAG might have money, but not enough pilots. If they were smart they would offer us 30k and 150 minimum fleet and start to work on that trust relationship between pilots and management. That's what will make them succeed.

Unless a better offer this TA will fail. ~ Vote no.

I rather shrink with new airplanes coming here than without them.

It will pass, we will see the 23rd. The most important thing is to go out and vote.

If you find yourself in a hole... Stop digging.

PSA/PDT have been dealing with Parker for 10 years. We know what to expect. The illusion of control is your shortcoming. This is trickle down effect at its finest. Take what you can and move on.

Envoy never had any power in these negotiations. If PSA and PDT had voted no, they would have been shut down and their airplanes given to MESA. It would have been the warning to Envoy.

AAG is going to get what they want. If you had been smart and taken the first deal, things would have been much better for you.

This new contract truly brings the industry to a new low with a new B-scale contract. You should be ashamed if you think that what Envoy has done so far has been noble or helped the industry in any way. It has hurt it more, and is in a far worse state than when you started.

I'll bet something similar was said back in the late 1700's :rolleyes:

Big business has evolved and learned how to deal with labor. They have lawyers and professional negotiators. Labor, on the other hand, is moving in the wrong direction.

ALPA could help in all of this, but they don't. They take a back seat and let the little MEC's work it out for themselves. The Union guys at the majors do not care what is going on at the regionals. Heck, most of the Captains at majors have no idea who Envoy is.

What if all of the AA and US guys slow-taxied (or called "nil" breaking with even the slightest amount of snow to cause major delays) until Envoy had a good contract? What would have happened then? That is power. These are the things that used to happen.

A MEC whining about their contract is not power. It does nothing to motivate them to pay you more. Until you can give them a reason to pay you more, they won't.

Sure they have power. They can shut the airline down if they choose. If that's not power, I'm not sure what is? It seems to me that if PDT and PSA had voted no and the respective airlines had been shut down, regional airline management would be a little more hesitant to try to stuff concessionary contracts down the remaining regional airline pilots' throats in this environment. I kind of said it tongue-in-cheek before, but they would have been running out of airlines to shut down. These management teams can only slash and burn so much.

If they had voted in either of the other two contracts, it appears to me it would have been concessionary anyway, right? I mean, Envoy management isn't asking them to vote on a contract that is better for the industry, are they? What does it matter if they took a crap contract before or a crap contract now?

The Envoy pilots have nothing to be ashamed of. Just curious, are you related to management in any way CLT Guy?

If management wanted to shut the airline down, do they need the union's vote to do so? Nope. If management wanted Eagle shut down they would've already been shut down.

Management is playing everyone like a fiddle.

Absolutely not. I am just a pilot that makes his paycheck like everyone else. I am, however, not blinded by unrealistic expectations.

Here are the questions that everyone should be asking: Is Envoy better off with this contract than they would have been with the first one? Are the regional airlines as a whole better for all of this? Are the relations between the pilots of the different airlines worse now? Is there any sort of solidarity at all now? Who was the winner in all of this?

All this has done is to tear the groups apart even more. You have to recognize this. With the Envoy pilots attacking the other regional pilots, why would they stand together? All this is doing is creating barriers that will hurt the collective labor as a whole. The B scale contract will create further animosity inside of Envoy. One guy will have one set of flow rules and pay scales (past the 12/4), while the guy sitting next to him will have something completely different. All that is happening is that we are being separated. The large "American Eagle" is gone, and several smaller pawns have been left in it's place. This is great for management, as pawns can be sacrificed to control the others - especially when the pawns all hate each other.

It is not the pilots at Envoys fault that this happened, but they did make it worse...and are continuing to make it worse every day. They attack other pilots for doing the exact thing that they are doing now - getting the best deal that they could and keeping their families fed.

Every negative comment from one pilot towards another is another win for airline management.

Envoy did have power! But Parker took it away. PSA tried to show some balls by declining not to take 900's when Parker first offered them. He wanted PSA to fly them at a blended rate. PSA people called his bluff and said go to hell. Parker simply called Ornstien and said can you fly 900's for xxx.xx. Sure I can he told Parker. Parker sends the 900's to Mesa and the PSA Pilots thinking they'd taken a stand are there with mouths open wondering how he could've done that to us.
Fast forward and now PSA is offered the same deal. A deal that has a threat of maybe more to Mesa or even worse to the red headed step kid of Piedmont Airlines. This time they don't call the bluff and take the deal. Envoy with it leverage votes "no" and Parker now starts to shrink Envoy. Enter the other wholly owned. The Red Headed Step Kid "Piedmont Airlines and it's the dying row boat floating all alone ready to grab any scraps just to be around for 10 more years. We would've jumped on PSA's deal to to live another day that's how bad we saw our future. You can't shrink us, don't even have to shut us down. That was already happening. Parker coming to us was like an angel with a defibrillator. So we we're a sure yes vote. No doubt! Senior Dying Airline with a 25 year old fleet and a company that couldn't keep or get people too. We were the perfect pawn in the chess game against Envoy.
Now Envoy having been shrunk looks like Piedmont did last year. No future, old fleet and a senior pilot group. They got us by the balls. I blame ALPA for much of this. They let these games be played out without ever jumping in to make sure every Airline made them equal in pay and workrules or even better.
I watched ALPA play ALG/PSA/PDT like a fiddle and it continues today. Look at what's going on now. ALPA and AAG negotiating two separate deals for the exact same airplanes?" Really????
It's a big club! And the regional Pilots aren't in it. Envoy vote how you must. Even if you vote NO it won't matter. You'll shrink and be merged and forgotten. Vote yes and you'll still shrink but have nice shiny E-175's to fly until you flow. Choice is yours and nobody else's.