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ENVOY presented with details on new contract
When the Envoy pilots are presented with detail regarding the new TA, how will the pilot group vote? Management has released information this past week and many pilots think the deal is concessionary. What issues are the most important to the pilot group? The presence of a 12/4 cap, regarding pay, as well as an increase in healthcare cost seem to be the biggest concerns. What do you think are industry standards are at this point?
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Has nothing to do with industry standards. Pay me what I am worth and share the profit. It has a lot more to do with trust. Not one pilot trust the company to keep any of their promises. No matter what they say about pay, enhanced flow or new aircraft, it is all up for their interruption.
Plus the concession stand is closed! |
The regional subsidiary Envoy, versus main line American, are two different companies. Let's get that straight. Envoy is a regional feeder that flies for American Airlines and it is the original company of all American Eagle feed. What you're paid is something you vote on and is amendable based on your contract and pilot input. The question is, what are you worth as a regional pilot? That is something each pilot must figure out. The regional airline industry is plagued with concessions and management thinks this is normal.
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Wow. I'm starting to think Mason was right all along.
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ENVOY presented with details on new contract
Why would you vote in concessions when your parent company is profitable? Why is it up to the employees to take pay cuts in order for the company to let you use machine they need in order to create revenue? What other industry or company ask their employees to make concessions in order for the company to defray the costs of doing business? And in this case the costs has already been realized anyway!
The industry standard is pay raises when the company is profitable. |
Originally Posted by 458FS
(Post 1757526)
When the Envoy pilots are presented with detail regarding the new TA, how will the pilot group vote? Management has released information this past week and many pilots think the deal is concessionary. What issues are the most important to the pilot group? The presence of a 12/4 cap, regarding pay, as well as an increase in healthcare cost seem to be the biggest concerns. What do you think are industry standards are at this point?
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450fs another from Jerry's kids group.
To answer part of your question what would it take, parker Kirby and glass to resign immediately from aag and any affiliations to aag would be a start just to read the new proposal. Because NO is NO. The concession stand is closed forever. |
458FS - you are an eagle FO? What's your background and current status?
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There's no TA yet, there have been no bullets point.
So far looks like Glass is lurking around. So here we go Mr Glass... There's some people will vote yes, but I don't see it going above 35%. How about you guys stop asking for the same stuff over and over without any incentive to the pilots pass it. As an incentive I'm Not talking about a bonus. I'm talking about immediate pay raises in the 12/4. How about at least 2.5% pay raise every year. Stop violating our contract, No PBS, stop making threats because we know you guys need us more than you try to make us believe. There's a lot I can say, but I'm going to keep it short. As far I'm concerned, if the company keep demanding the same crap, the outcome will be the same, NOOOOOOOOOO! |
Originally Posted by 458FS
(Post 1757526)
When the Envoy pilots are presented with detail regarding the new TA, how will the pilot group vote? Management has released information this past week and many pilots think the deal is concessionary. What issues are the most important to the pilot group? The presence of a 12/4 cap, regarding pay, as well as an increase in healthcare cost seem to be the biggest concerns. What do you think are industry standards are at this point?
AAG is making record profit and at the helm is a guy who could never pass the background check. You threaten our jobs on one hand and then beg congress to relax the ATP requirements on the other. So let me ask you, even with your 12/4 and insurance increases, how are you going to address the fact that our top 500 pilots are at the top tier pay? They have all deferred flowing and we have more captains than PSA has pilots. If you want to shut us down, that's your choice. 70% of us told you last time what you can do with your concessions. Not that you care, I'm sure you're getting paid by the hour. So start up a new airline, offer street captain spots, and all the while Delta has out maneuvered you again. Delta is busy taking flying back from regionals so they control the customer experience better. You have now taken us to what, 10 regionals? I have a contract. Come back 2016 |
Originally Posted by The Chow
(Post 1757596)
Here's what you don't get associate from F&S, when you do a job so well that your company becomes a brand that's worth something.
AAG is making record profit and at the helm is a guy who could never pass the background check. You threaten our jobs on one hand and then beg congress to relax the ATP requirements on the other. So let me ask you, even with your 12/4 and insurance increases, how are you going to address the fact that our top 500 pilots are at the top tier pay? They have all deferred flowing and we have more captains than PSA has pilots. If you want to shut us down, that's your choice. 70% of us told you last time what you can do with your concessions. Not that you care, I'm sure you're getting paid by the hour. So start up a new airline, offer street captain spots, and all the while Delta has put maneuvered you again. Delta is busy taking flying back from regionals so they control the customer experience better. You clowns have now taken us to what, 10 regionals? |
You want the amendment round credit now,how about 90 million between 2200 pilots.....40,000 signing bonus all paid right now, then it may Slightly pass.
Hi fsh solutions, I don't know how you sleep at night. |
The top 500 are not topped out. Barely 300 are topped out
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Any good recipies people want to share?
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Originally Posted by Spoiler
(Post 1757631)
The top 500 are not topped out. Barely 300 are topped out
I'm pretty sure the next TA will be like the last. |
Don't give'em any feedbacks/ideas. Let them sweat and lets go Silent mode...... oh and btw solid NO.
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Yep. A lot of chatter here about details we haven't seen. It's also been pointed out that any info we do get that isn't official is a deliberate company leak. I wonder who is buddies enough with management to get that info?
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Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox
(Post 1757684)
Yep. A lot of chatter here about details we haven't seen. It's also been pointed out that any info we do get that isn't official is a deliberate company leak. I wonder who is buddies enough with management to get that info?
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1757556)
450fs another from Jerry's kids group.
To answer part of your question what would it take, parker Kirby and glass to resign immediately from aag and any affiliations to aag would be a start just to read the new proposal. Because NO is NO. The concession stand is closed forever. Fight a good fight but bail when you can and understand that at the regional level you may win a battle here and there but you will lose the war. |
Originally Posted by The Chow
(Post 1757596)
Here's what you don't get associate from F&S, when you do a job so well that your company becomes a brand that's worth something.
AAG is making record profit and at the helm is a guy who could never pass the background check. You threaten our jobs on one hand and then beg congress to relax the ATP requirements on the other. So let me ask you, even with your 12/4 and insurance increases, how are you going to address the fact that our top 500 pilots are at the top tier pay? They have all deferred flowing and we have more captains than PSA has pilots. If you want to shut us down, that's your choice. 70% of us told you last time what you can do with your concessions. Not that you care, I'm sure you're getting paid by the hour. So start up a new airline, offer street captain spots, and all the while Delta has out maneuvered you again. Delta is busy taking flying back from regionals so they control the customer experience better. You have now taken us to what, 10 regionals? I have a contract. Come back 2016 |
Match point....they're somewhat trolling in attempt to derail the thread. Stuff about the "new TA" is being leaked by mgmt to get an idea on what they can cut out or what they should add to get 51%. People need not argue on the forums on what the TA should include. So, people are just saying outrageous stuff to get it off topic. Instead of saying what we would actually like on here, envoy pilots need to communicate with their reps.
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well every one in my alcoholic group (excluding doug) are NO votes, forever true NO.
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<--------------------------------------------
<-------------------------------------------- My Answer <-------------------------------------------- |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1757843)
well every one in my alcoholic group (excluding doug) are NO votes, forever true NO.
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OK so 300 topped out but the 824 list is essentially solid "accept when offered" after that so the point is moot
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I made a great southwest style chicken dish.
Make whole grain brown rice. Cook cut up boneless skinless chicken breast in coconut oil. Cook. Add a hearty amount of salsa, a litte tomato sauce, frozen mix of stir fry veggies. Add some water. Next add beans like black beans. Corn if you want. ADD DICED PINNAPLE. Simmer and serve over the rice. Freezes well for road meals in glass Pyrex. |
Originally Posted by Spoiler
(Post 1757882)
OK so 300 topped out but the 824 list is essentially solid "accept when offered" after that so the point is moot
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Originally Posted by MatchPoint
(Post 1757871)
I truly applaud your conviction and support your efforts but be very careful. It's critical that you know just how far to push it because in the end management is in control. Push, fight and push but don’t be narrow-minded and shortsighted, sometimes it's best to live to fight another day. Just like with Comair you might win the battle but lose the war. Be smart and good luck.
Thanks for the solid,and from the heart advice, Pedro! |
Originally Posted by Check Complete
(Post 1758135)
Thanks for the solid,and from the heart advice, Pedro!
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Originally Posted by SkylineAviation
(Post 1758136)
I don't understand why whenever someone with a different point of view, expressing their opinion other than "burn it down" or "no forever" gets some smarta** remark.
I think is a great idea, not to discuss "leaked" or "rumors" while in negotiations. That way our guys can do a better job and not get shoot down by management saying "but in the forums we can see people agreeing to ..." |
Originally Posted by Check Complete
(Post 1758135)
Thanks for the solid,and from the heart advice, Pedro!
Know how far to push it and when to stop so you can fight another day. And staying in the fight is critical to all. |
Originally Posted by MatchPoint
(Post 1758202)
I am not Mgmt., I am a mainline run of the mill pilot ex-regional Brand-X'r and yes it is solid advice. Burning it down is narrow-minded and shortsighted..... not to mention it's flat out stupid and does absolutely nothing in the end. Just ask Comair pilots. Did their stand help your cause? No it didn't, it actually hurt it because it proves you cannot win the war, Mgmt. always has the last word. Where are those CR7s going? Can you stop it? No! Sadly like it or not, disagree or not, Mgmts in control.
Know how far to push it and when to stop so you can fight another day. And staying in the fight is critical to all. Too late for that in my opinion. The previous MEC/LEC from some domiciles spread and contaminated the current envoy pilot group with the burn it down mentality The sad thing is those same ones are all gone to Mainline (via flow) or other LCC's. So setting the "line"really all its doing is hurting envoy pilots in the end till there is nothing left. Ah but that will show management.......:rolleyes: |
You do not know what you're talking about RJ Pilot. It is better to be thought a fool. Then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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Originally Posted by Tsuda
(Post 1758223)
You do not know what you're talking about RJ Pilot. It is better to be thought a fool. Then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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Thread title is misleading and should be edited.
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Originally Posted by MatchPoint
(Post 1758202)
I am not Mgmt., I am a mainline run of the mill pilot ex-regional Brand-X'r and yes it is solid advice. Burning it down is narrow-minded and shortsighted..... not to mention it's flat out stupid and does absolutely nothing in the end. Just ask Comair pilots. Did their stand help your cause? No it didn't, it actually hurt it because it proves you cannot win the war, Mgmt. always has the last word. Where are those CR7s going? Can you stop it? No! Sadly like it or not, disagree or not, Mgmts in control.
Know how far to push it and when to stop so you can fight another day. And staying in the fight is critical to all. So far, nothing fair has been offered to Envoy pilots, so there's no way they could be "pushing" anything. |
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1758220)
Too late for that in my opinion. The previous MEC/LEC from some domiciles spread and contaminated the current envoy pilot group with the burn it down mentality
The sad thing is those same ones are all gone to Mainline (via flow) or other LCC's. So setting the "line"really all its doing is hurting envoy pilots in the end till there is nothing left. Ah but that will show management.......:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Tsuda
(Post 1758223)
You do not know what you're talking about RJ Pilot. It is better to be thought a fool. Then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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Ok Mr Chow point taken but my point is that after 300 there are no significant quantity 15 yr people left as the 824 will take them out sooner rather than later
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Dang Johnson, you don't miss one!
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