Burning it down is narrow-minded, shortsighted and stupid. You cannot win the war because management always has the last word. Live to fight another day because staying in the fight is critical. To all. Thanks for bringing all that clarity to the discussion.:rolleyes:

Translated : Fear is my friend and should be yours too. I hope to see Envoy pilots undercut the industry, besmirch their reputations and capitulate to reasonable demands.

Now there's some clarity. :rolleyes:

Prep Time 20 min Total Time 1 hr 20 min Servings 6
Meat Loaf

2
eggs, beaten
1/2
cup ketchup
1/2
cup milk
1
cup Progresso™ Italian Style Bread Crumbs
1/4
cup finely chopped onion
1
lb. lean ground beef
Topping

1/4
cup ketchup

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Directions
1Heat oven to 350°F. In large bowl, combine all meat loaf ingredients; mix well. Press mixture in ungreased 8x4-inch loaf pan. Bake at 350°F. for 40 minutes.
2Remove meat loaf from oven. Spread 1/4 cup ketchup evenly over top. Return to oven; bake an additional 15 to 20 minutes or until meat thermometer reaches 160°F. and beef is thoroughly cooked. Let stand 10 minutes before serving.

This is not good...think my neighbor's dog worships the devil. If it makes an alliance with the black cat from the 3rd floor, I'm screwed.

ENVOY presented with details on new contract
 

So much for the preliminary displacement bid coming out yesterday I guess...or probably today for that matter.

Rick, 80/20 (lean/fat) beef for better moisture? Or do you use 93/7?
I like to mix in a little pork or veal as well. And some smoked paprika.

Word on the street is that Jerry is becoming very concerned Envoy pilots may in fact have real spines. He assumed they were invertebrate Gumby's and he may now have to make a honest offer.

Stay tuned for updates.

You mean like PDT pilots?

93/7!!?! 93/7!!!? Are you a hippie?? Haha, sorry, my wife gets this stuff and the burgers just aren't the same. Sore spot for me.

I got last spring when they said beef would go up onsale at costco 85/15 organic wrapped by the pound gb for 2.49pd. I got like 75 PDS and put it in the chest, still using it up.

Do disagree with narrow-minded extremes. Place your finger on the no vote trigger, but for heaven's sake look beyond the target and see what might happen if things don't work out the way you expect.

Top your meatloaf with a mixture of ketchup, brown sugar and worcestershire sauce. Mmmmmmmm.

What??? And no, Im not calling what...

Add hot sause

I would vote yes for this if it included a free boat, a briefcase of $100k unmarked cash, and a free blowie from Mila Kunis. Don't tell them, but I might be willing to budge on the boat.

Pregnant or pre-pregnancy Mila?:confused:

Why just a blowie?

Mila Kunis, third tri, tantric handy...best we can do, guy.

I literally ELOHEL'ed.

Anyone have a good recipe for taco salad?

Well a hippie would substitute tofu. I do a combination of sirloin, ground turkey, and bison. High in protein, low fat. Helps me keep that medical.

Rick, as for taco salad I'd suggest getting some already prepared tortilla bowls - they have them at Kroger in the bread section. Queso fresco makes a nice touch instead of cheddar.

And of course, if you can get Mila Kunis to toss your salad, even better.

Best post ever

There's a delicious southwest style saad dressing that taste just like a taco

Hahahaha. Deal's off unless you can get Olivia Munn to join!

Pedro dont right that good.

word is 35 f/os resigned this month and it is only the 6th of the month.

Awesome...keep going guys.

Funniest APC thread I've read in a while.....

I was one of them. Wrote a professional resignation letter. Provided two weeks notice. Offered to drop off my ID, manuals, etc. at HQ (I live in DFW). Never received a response back. I know they got the message because I saw "RE" on my Nov schedule. Too much trouble to acknowledge " appreciate your safe service, best of luck"? I did get what I assume is my final pay today. $635. Par for the course for a year one FO; dismal.

Is this behavior indicative of a "professional" company that employs professionals ?

Clearly not.

I think this should be a wake-up call to all present and prospective future Envoy employees (not just pilots) exactly the type of company Envoy is. New contract or "deal" or not, this won't change. Only a fool would anchor his or her career on such an outfit. This type of conduct is a major red flag and should be looked on accordingly.

I think the best plan is to make sure your house is in order at all times when working for these types of companies and be flexible and ready to act when the opportunity to exit presents itself. You did exactly what all should do. Just my .02.........

It's sad to see how far legacy Eagle has fallen in just a few short years. At this rate, the only one left to turn out the lights will be RJ pilot.

I hate to ask but... PSA, Compass or Mesa?

Out of curiosity, how many pilots does Envoy have on their list now? We at L-XJT are down to 2694.

Guys you realize the CO wants people to resign, right? It's managements plan, you're only helping them out. If they furlough it costs them money in increased unemployment taxes. They are parting Eagle one plane by plane. Not only that but they are placing the aircraft with their other operators, effectively erasing away longevity pay, vacation, and sick time.

Great, great plan. Probably got management millions more in bonuses for thinking that one up.

Follow the money.

I gotta say, if that's the plan then they have executed it perfectly because this place has got so bad and the bad news never ceases to exist that nearly everyone is running for the exits.

And expect the bad news to keep on coming. That's not being pessimistic, that's a fact.

Listen to the ORD town hall meeting posted not too long ago; Parker basically said the same. An Eagle guy directly asked him "what's our future" and he basically said "there isn't one" without taking the new contract deal.

I hate to say it but the company should put a proposal on the table massively slashing the top senior pay while increasing the bottom end pay. It would kill two birds with one stone:

1) Force the senior guys to GTFO because they'd be taking a huge pay cut
2) Guarantee a majority yes vote, all the F/Os and most of the junior CA's.

See, I should be management :).

That being said, taking a look at your rates, they're actually really not that good. I'm not sure what AAG's hard on is for cutting pay even more, you're actually well below companies like SkyWest and Air Wisconsin. You have a Comair problem, way too top heavy. Only way to fix that problem is the same way Delta fixed their issue with Comair...

Our pay rates aren't really "well below" or at all below Skywest, don't know how you came up with that. But you are correct in that they aren't very good and should be significantly better. And envoy's costs are higher because of the longevity of our guys in ADDITION to completely incompetent management for a decade. They could have fixed the longevity problem by offering better flow incentives or fixing year one pay at AA, or even just by growing the airline into proportion. A good number of these guys will be gone in 5-10 years anyway, and judging by the fact that they offered to grandfather their rates in with a new contract I'd say that's not the big issue.
So why are they playing the game? Ignore everything Parker or Kirby say at a town hall meeting, it's just a show they put on. They're not trying to fix envoy's longevity problem, they're trying to lock in this entire broken system for another decade at a time when it's future was less certain, while also capping pay at year 12 which fixes the only issue they've ever had with it. So now they get bigger planes, flown for regional wages, with no raises for a decade of inflation, and no longevity issue. Once that's locked in, all they have to is chip away at scope over a decade, and pretty soon the pilot career equals a regional career. And PSA and PDT volunteered to help them.

QUOTE=Name User;1759653]Listen to the ORD town hall meeting posted not too long ago; Parker basically said the same. An Eagle guy directly asked him "what's our future" and he basically said "there isn't one" without taking the new contract deal.

I hate to say it but the company should put a proposal on the table massively slashing the top senior pay while increasing the bottom end pay. It would kill two birds with one stone:

1) Force the senior guys to GTFO because they'd be taking a huge pay cut
2) Guarantee a majority yes vote, all the F/Os and most of the junior CA's.

See, I should be management :).

That being said, taking a look at your rates, they're actually really not that good. I'm not sure what AAG's hard on is for cutting pay even more, you're actually well below companies like SkyWest and Air Wisconsin. You have a Comair problem, way too top heavy. Only way to fix that problem is the same way Delta fixed their issue with Comair...[/QUOTE]

Wrong. The way to fix it would have been to not make us file the last 10 years of grievances and arbitrations dealing with Letter 3 and the flow through. The way to fix it would have been to listen to the multimillion dollar Bain study the company paid for and increase the flow and offer financial incentives to flow. The way to fix it is to fill AA new hire classes with Eagle-voy pilots, or stop restricting the flow down to 20 a month instead of 30 (which is yet another pending grievance.) It is entirely within the ability of management to "fix" this "problem" without destroying our airline, lives, and already meager compensation, but that's what they choose to do, and should not be trusted one iota.

Not a vary smart plan if it is. The risk is what if attrition exceeds the rate at which they can replace the flying. If it does, they have to relinquish market share to competitors that is very difficult to regain.

Isn't there a no furlough clause at Envoy ?

Most of the pilots leaving in uncontrolled fashion (to outside carriers) aren't outside the proposed 12/4 caps, so little to be gained there. No, I think Envoy is essentially become a rudderless ship loaded with pilots looking for a life raft. The majority who stick it out are all senior topped out 18-year lifers like RJ pilot and then what have they got left ?

A carrier that will HAVE to be subject to consolidation to reset the remaining lifers compensation (if they want to stay). Right now, they've just decided to burn the furniture to heat the house until it's time to torch it for the insurance (asset acquisition with an offer of employment, a'la TWA).

Envoy only had ten flow awards this month.

How many left for other carriers or outside the industry ?

I'll bet it was at least double that. The good news is it will take several years for Envoy to fold and well before that (by summer), Parker won't be able to replace lost Envoy markets with others and will have a real problem.

That's when things get REAL interesting. I'd expect harsher threats as they get more and more desperate and their backs are pressed against the wall harder and harder.