No. I passed my number. I am in the preferred hire now group which will be three years before anyone in this group gets a chance to flow.

So I am still a NO vote

Yeah you don't have nothing to lose then.

Burn it.

Good Luck.

Yah.......sure. :rolleyes:

Good Luck. ;)

******, *****, *****, etc. are all lying crooks, a bunch of ******* ******* ******** also ***** of ****.

Pattern bargaining works by each group of ALPA pilots undercutting every other group of ALPA pilots in a never-ending race to the bottom. It is awesome!

So if the company wants pay caps and increased health care costs why are we not fighting for duty rigs, more efficient schedules and a real signing bonus? Hell, if endeavor can pull off 30k why am I supposed to settle for 7.5/12.5? Why can't we get a 4.0/day duty rig? It would stop the crap schedules when they are paying guys extra money when I have a 1 leg day worth 1.0 or less. There are other regionals that have duty rigs so don't tell me it's not possible.

All the planes are owned by AAG (thanks TT). That gives them the ability to transfer them anywhere. That goes for TSA, compass, PSA, Piedmont, express jet or whoever else they give airplanes to. This bs will continue for years because we don't own the planes. Word on the street is that the Compass deal is only 2 years. I don't know if that's true but if it is the planes will be moved or they will have to bid for the flying again, they may not see a pay cut but if eagle is cheaper then they will just transfer the planes back.

I think I'm good, another no vote from me. They have created another batch of 9+year FO's (I will be one of them)who will be stuck where they are at currently till upgrade, then only 2 steps as captain to hit 12 yr.

We said no to a much better deal earlier this year, no way I'm going to cave now.

If we don't have any leverage why does AAG keep coming back. They come back because pilots and mechanics are a valuable resource. If they lose even 30% to other careers by getting out of flying all together then there will be no one to fly their shiny airplanes. This vote is not about the next 12-24 months. AAG wants a deal now before they get in a real bad position in 2018 when legacy retirements really ramp up. If we are all supposed to flow to AA quick why are they so stuck on 12/4. Maybe they are hoping mainline caves and they can keep ordering 76 seaters over the current cap. Then 70% of domestic lift is e175s and then unless you start your career in your twenties you'll never see a good mainline schedule

The bonus is a joke. Look at what e-dvr is paying just for people to stay. Ca should have been above 30k No increase in flow for years so all the bad right away and none of the good for years. If you are in the 824 why would you even consider voting yes. You won't be here long enough to fly the e175 as the top 400 will bid it and even if you can, what do you get paid. Oh yeah E145 pay!!!! Because as the cr7 leave guess what happens to the # of CA in that top pay brackett. And they will leave faster that we get 175 especially with a 4-5 month head start.
Delta is increasing hiring to 115/month in 2015 so why get hired here at the bottom of 2200 pilots if only 20/month get to go. There is nothing in TA about a true up penalty for not keeping 50% ratio so why would they flow more than 20.

Big F..King NO vote. Just like the last 2, 3, or was it 4, NO crap I forget how many times they keep coming back

Exactly. AAG wouldn't keep coming back if they didn't need you. The fact is, they can't find enough pilots at the other regionals to replace you. Has anyone asked AAG why they are sending 15 aircraft to XJT which is the most expensive FFD regional out there? I would love to hear their explanation of that.

Sorry if this is already covered, but when does the pilot voting begin and end?

Honestly, It really doesn't matter how you vote. If you vote No and "fight the system" they will continue to shrink you into nothing. If you vote Yes and "give in" and get a crap contract you will not be able to staff whatever aircraft you have coming. We went through this whole thing at Endeavor. Why American hasn't learned from watching the sh*t show at Endeavor I don't understand. But that's the future and you're screwed either way. It's just how it is when you have a ton of lifers at the top of your regional and are stuck only flying for one airline. They got you by the balls.

I disagree. I think the pilots have management by the balls. They need us more than we need them. But Parker and Glass seem to have a lot of you believing that's not true.

Absolutely. eny pilots are winning the battle!

Good Luck.

Without anyone using their crystal balls and trying to predict the future could somebody please give me the pros and cons of either a yes vote or no vote. And like i said pleE don't try and predict the future. Just black and white pros and cons of yes vote or no vote pllease.

Ok, any flow requires crystal ball because no one knows the future, so remove flowfrom the equation.

Loss of profit sharing, the only employee group on AAG property to have it.
Pay freezes and 1 percent every three years raise versus currently 1.5 percent every year. Insurance goes up in TA while now it is not required to go up.

I do not have guarantee fleet plan current contract, but TA has fleet guarantee of 40 hard firm aircraft, if they can be staffed, if not they will be given to someone else as they are doing now with our current fleet.

That's all.

"...our negotiators, officers, and the entire ALPA leadership have assured us that they have achieved as much as possible in return for the re-fleeting of our airline."

So, as a matter of general discussion, in what other industries are the tools of the business used as such massive leverage against the employees who are the specially trained operators?

This is the main failure of ALPA in the last 30 years. Old days... strikes happened and scabs were their solution to keep the planes moving. No need for "real" scabs these days. But if you go to TSA or PSA to fly these planes, that's what you are. You're 21st century scabs. We at XJT have not taken any concessions, but we're still part of this new business architecture that participates in the withholding of aircraft from the pilots who should rightfully be flying them. In another year when XJT will not sign a deal, guess who will get "our" airplanes.

So, today it is essentially a lockout tactic, no strikes these days, but they managed to figure out how to keep the planes in the air using new employees, but no, no scabs doing it, right? Scabs are not really scabs anymore, because there are not really strikes are there? Because management figured out how to hire their "scabs" without needing to deal with those pesky strikes. Someone asked why AAG has given E145s to TSA and XJT. Answer is because they can't do a lockout on Envoy without giving airplanes away to lock them out.

I am a union volunteer for my fellow pilots. But, dear ALPA... you suck for not fighting this garbage. You suck for not trying. Please figure out how. We're losing in days of records profits everywhere except the bottom.

" Stand for the industry" " Hold the Line" thats all Compass, TSA, PSA, TSA Xjet
wants.

Good Luck.

TSA took no concessions to fly AAG acft, why is the mighty XJT above them?

It's not your flying. It never was. It's United flying. Those airplanes were being parked and your company turned down a proposal to fly them. That's not scabs. That's being too expensive. Calling TSA pilots scabs is absolutely moronic and if you believe they are, you should do your pilot group a favor and stop Union volunteering. You're making them all look at stupid as you sound. Just remember, your existence in an RJ is solely because you offered to fly cheaper than a legacy pilot. Pot meet kettle

You're forgetting a very important part of this equation: scope. Mainline carriers have scope language that prevents the airline from transferring their airplanes to other carriers. Regional carriers don't have this language; never have. In many cases this is due to having no leverage to get it, since the parent or code share airline owns the airplanes the regional flies.

During the last round of contract negotiations, Compass tried to secure language that tied us to our (at the time) 42 airplanes. This was a non-starter because Delta owns the airplanes and they don't want to be limited in their ability to make moves like AA is currently doing.

A likely response would be, "tell them we won't sign a deal without this scope language." Unfortunately, the mainline carrier will then pack up and take its airplanes elsewhere.

At any FFD conference of ALPA carriers the number one first thing agreed is that "nobody owns the flying." You're obviously the wrong person for a union position because you have the wrong perspective. I'm sure glad you think the only thing between XJT and a scab (TSA) is a few percent of 401k match or health insurance premiums even though TSA pay rates are better. Facepalm

RAH has that language.

I'm sure it's on the airplanes you own, not on the airplanes provided by the partner.

No they don't. They have alter ego language. Way different.

Your existence in an RJ is because the legacy pilot sold it.

Base closing
 

With only 40 aircraft there is no protection in this TA for say every pilot to be JFK based or DFW. Something to think about. If you live in ORD then they close it as a base because republic is doing all the e175 flying there and Trans states is covering the remaing???? I'd want to know where they plan on basing these. I know it can change
But let's protect ourselves from more Base closings

The E175 pay in this TA is shameful, disgusting, and embarrassing. It is abominable that E175 pay will be this low.

Paxhauler, envoy did have that language until 2010 when the then mec lied to the pilot group and it was changed.

I hate this company. It is sad how a few ******** took over this company with the blessing of AA employee unions, and how they have systematically destroyed Eagle. What a horrible career.

That's my whole point. No FFD owns ANY work. Promise of airplanes to fly (until they decide to move them) is an impossible condition to negotiate fair contracts, or ever be an equal-status union pilot, if other pilots have the protection of true scope. That's the failure of ALPA! FFD conferences to discuss this will not ever improve anything if the best they can figure to do is have the MEC chairman write a letter that basically tells the leaving scum pilots to not leave because it makes you look scummy, even if you think it will help you skip the cue to mainline.

My slam at TSA is at the new hire guys leaving one ALPA carrier to chase the same freaking job (soon same airplanes) at another. Call them scums if you care, whatever. How does that make you a good ALPA pilot? How does chasing promise of quick PIC help the position of fellow pilots you choose to abandon at your current airline? How is that not scabbing, if you are weakening fellow pilots to advance yourself? New list of names should be taken.

Says captainnameless. Sorry that's kinda funny. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

RAH scope language covers leased aircraft as well. In short all owned or leased aircraft shall be operated by pilots on our seniority list.

I politely disagree, you should read the scope section of our contract. In addition to "alter-ego" language, it also has the following provision:

That quoted part doesn't protect against what is happening at the other carriers, it is nothing like scope protection. It basically says the company can't transfer planes, if the leased planes are moved off contract you're smoked.

But, no worries there because RAH is actually pretty good about keeping costs in line.

And all that can be yours for 20,000 a year in the right seat of a E-Jet along with crazy healthcare cost and a training contract. Sweet!! Where do we sign up.

Envoy is in a pickle. Vote Yes and shrink, vote no and still shrink but knowing you have a bit of a future with some 175's.

Bottom line is Parker in no way shape or form wants one of his WO'ed regionalsdoing 90% of it's flying. Probably wants all 3 about the same size or 2 regionals the same size depending on Envoy's vote. He isn't going to allow one regional carrier to be as big as Eagle was.
If Piedmont had voted "no" we would've just shrunk to nothing due to everyone leaving as they already were and other contract carriers would've took over the flying we were doing without even blinking. Pretty easy to put some RJ's from other Carriers to fill in for only 36 prop planes. Envoy being way bigger has been more of an issue with Parker.

Envoy can vote "Yes" and that's fine. Or they can try to stick it to Parker and the wallets of AAG by voting "No". Either way he's going to get what he wants it's just a matter of how much money he is going to have to spend to get it.

Besides a few of you that were bashing Piedmont over our TA I wish the rest of you luck in your choice. You've fought the fight do you continue or do you just throw your hands up and move on?

Yeah, that makes it almost like a real airline with real pilots and real careers. Can't have that.

If this TA passes, I could never in good conscience recommend anyone to work at Eagle. What a horrible company. Eagle would still be better than going to PSA, but it will become a horrible company. What a horrible industry and a horrible career.

Can we get also a Envoy Life video like PSA? With hot FOs and lots of FAs?

Well on the Crew News that's what Parker said. He doesn't want anyone to make a Career out of the WO's. He said it. He wants you to come in and do you time and move (Flow) on to mainline.

It might get to the point that the only way to get hired at American is by going through one of there WO'ed carriers once hiring slows down. I'm sure he's got a plan. Remember he didn't get to be the CEO of the largest airline by being dumb and not stepping on toes.

You know, just last month when everyone was arguing the whole 12/4 issue etc.. it was widely believed this is in preparation for merger of the wholly owned's. But now I'm not so sure. It seems to me merging all the carriers into a single airline would actually work better in favor of the pilots. If Envoy was the only American regional, I do not think they would be in this position, ie they would have much more leverage.

they all say that when it's contract time
drag out the script and parrot the lines who will ever know
then promise a career at the major they won't fulfill and then come back and blame the pilots for costs
seems to get the needed mileage every time