Funny how the loud mouthed Mason32, I mean Cujo, is now selling this TA like his life depended on it. It's almost the same as the original TA that he was screaming to stay strong and give the middle finger to corporate greed. Now "the landscape has changed" (an easy way for envoy guys to be able to blame PSA, like you're seeing in this theead) and this is the best deal envoy can get.

Envoy will always be stagnate and this will do nothing to solve upgrade times or longevity.

Keep in mind, if we'd have voted yes (to this same deal) over a year ago, we'd be preparing to take delivery of the first 175s in Miami in a couple months. Now we're getting the leftovers after people have a solid 11 months to find better employment. Envoy will be roughly the same aize as PSA by the end of next year

From my small prospective, this TA will pass. I have spoken with a lot of guys who voted no last time. I'd say about 80% of those guys are yes votes now.

Well I'm sure all those guys like Diva, JT8, V1Rot8 and many others that blasted Piedmont will all the sudden get really quiet.

Good Luck to the rest of Envoy folks.

12,500 is plenty of dough to offset that first yr pay at AA.

Good Luck.

I'm just curious, is there anything in this deal that makes Envoy an attractive place for new hires? The new airplanes are just fleet replacement right? Envoy is still going to shrink to less than 1000 pilots right?

"PSA would have been shut down if we voted no."

"Piedmont would have been shut down if we voted no."

"Envoy will be shut down if they vote no."

Envoy already voted a few times NO and didn't get shut down.:rolleyes:

You forgot one.

" pinnacle will be shut down if they vote no"

Whew! Wow! I'm pretty impressed with you eagle (envoy) guys!
You held the line, company said they didn't need you but now they are back!
They are back because you have power!

Billy, all the guys I speak with have no ill will toward PDT. We knew ya'll were in a tough spot. It's the PSA guys who started this downward spiral.

Ya'll need to vote no....your bringing down this industry!

Says the PSA scumbag...

How was PDT in a tougher spot than PSA?

Both had aging fleets with expiring leases/life cylces.

Both were told they would be shutdown if they voted no.

Both were of similar size.

2017 shut down.
36 planes here.
No more parts for our planes etc etc
Very different.

LOL! PDT was way worse off then PSA. Too Funny there. Good Try.

I'd just like to see one envoy person take responsibility for their actions rather than blame it on another pilot group....PSA is such scum....yet we are about to vote in something worse than them...but we did it because we had to...they are still scum....

They have not voted it in yet.

You can't "etc etc" facts. What are they?

You had 36 acft. Ok. PSA had 47.

2017 shutdown? PSA was told 2019 would be our end.

I agree you guys had no choice but to vote yes but how could you possibly say PSA had a choice when you just went through exactly what we did?

I'd wager to say PSA's CRJs (the same ones they got when they originally threw ALG/PDT under the bus over a decade ago, in a scenario eerily reminiscent to this one) were a wee bit newer and shorter in the tooth than Piedmont's Dashes.

Leverage was lost when the B scale was moved off mainline property.

Never said they weren't, just that our bargaining positions, and consequences were similar.

PDT and Eagle are playing the victim card now that they were forced(just as we were) to accept a sub par deal.

The vitriol spewed on this website is epic, but now it's someone else's fault that they are finally seeing the writing on the wall, when our union was smart enough to see it in the first place.

Maybe this thing won't pass and we can just go back to the status quo PSA hating.

Does it matter now? PSA didn't start the race to the bottom. That was already in motion by many other carriers. Look at all the people that flocked to Republic to fly that E-Jet for peanuts. I see them even more part of the problem then PSA could ever be. Many other carriers were bottom feeding before PSA.
Piedmont had no choice is probably safe to say. If we had voted "no" Mr. Parker didn't even have to threaten to shut us down. With our aging fleet of 25 year old Turbo Props and senior pilot group we would've just started parking plane because nobody would've come here to sit in a Prop with no upgrade in sight. We already had FO's leaving faster then we could train them. Our fate would've sealed itself with a NO vote.

Now Envoy faces the music again. Not once or twice but now three times. How many times did Parker say he was done with them?? He beat that poor pilot group very hard. But he needs them or he'd already shut them down totally and never spoke to them again. I had a Envoy Jumpseater and I felt bad when he discussed how bad it was. They have a choice to make. they can vote NO fall on the sword and tell AAG to go to hell. Then they can say they held the line and Eagle will fade into history and nobody will remember them in 5-10 years like all the other regionals that have shut down. Then AAG at more cost to them will just transfer more of there flying around and eventually merge them with one of the other WO'ed carriers. Or they can Vote yes and have the torture end and see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel.

Good Luck! As a pilot group I wish them the best. It's your vote. Those handful that bashed Piedmont and PSA we'll you know who you are. You guys will feel Karma. Rest of ya. Good Luck.

This is working out great for management. They spent a year using major scare tactics, shrinking your fleet, giving away 175s with threats of more being given away, all while offering the same junk they did a year ago. This is working perfectly as planned. Freak you out until you are too scared to vote no...then bam!! a new concessionary contract is signed. All while AAG is making record profits. What a freaking joke.

Says the compass guy. You really are clueless, aren't you?

AAG has been doing what they said they will do. No doubt about that.
So far, no better deal have been given. This is less than the previous one offered back in spring. If the gun-hos anti company NO vote pushers in NY went for it, that should tell you something.

Good Luck.

Our union MEC chair tells us that your MEC jumped at the first deal offered while simultaneously resisting any efforts to communicate with any other FFD ALPA MEC. ALPA had FFD meetings that were attended by republic and skywest labor leaders and we had better communication with them than with the PSA MEC. Please do not equate our fight with yours.

I do get it...but this is the ultimate pot calling kettle black situation and everyone refuses to acknowledge it

Pattern bargaining, how does it work?

Pass or not, PSA hatred will always be a given.

I really don't think PSA pilots care about the hatred.

Wow !

Looks like the last deal but with fewer jets and a payoff. Looks like certain senior captains will be making less and less each year now. That's terrible. :eek:

But........."Good Luck" ;)

"............. and heeeeeerrreeeeeeeee is *****."

This TA is a perfect set up for AA. They get the high paying Captains out.. (To AA) and dont have to replace them. As the CRJ700's go to PSA and the E145's to PDT/XJT/TSA. Then the 175's arrive in a year or so. And bam. New Cheap Captains on the 12/4 scale...

And this will help subsidize that fat pay you'll make at mainline.:eek:

Good Luck. :rolleyes:

Will captains currently on property below 12 years longevity be capped at 12 years? Will guys between 12-17 years have their pay frozen/capped? What is the average seniority of guys currently flowing to AA?

16 year guys are flowing now.

See attachment for PDF of changes.......

So the flow is the lesser or 50% or 20 per class. So AA is hiring 100 a month. Thas 20 Eagle pilots pr 50?? The fleet commitment scares me. Only 40 E175's. Thats ~500 pilots total.... Im convinced all 50 seaters will go away to other airlines...

It's a typo. The term sheet has it right. It's 50% or meter to 20. 30 when the first 175 shows up.