Really, which ones don't????

Thats my point the on time stats for regionals is a joke..I hear pilots talking trash because envoy is last on the on time rankings..:cool:

Before I came to envoy I worked for a smaller regional with no ACARS and almost every flight blocked out "ten early" and blocked in "ten late" - still in the A+14 "on time arrival window" but more flight time logged/block or better pay... but not MY flights :cool:

I've "heard" the ATR was a time machine and was always on time. Even when it was late.

Air Midwest was notorious for that back when they were around with the Beech 1900D's.

Gotta wait - I heard he has a nice weekend going into EDDI in Germany. Beer and Brats!

I "heard" the same.

Ok, I guess I should've been more specific with my question. In today's world, specifically those that are opperating jets, which ones don't have Acars?

Any idea how many pilots are on property right now?

If I stick with this aviation thing (I'm at my commercial/instrument SEL) I project I'll be there in 3 years via the US aviation academy instructor pipeline program. Still too early to hope for things to be better by then?

Also, (granted no 9/11's, economic collapses, or the discovery of teleportation) I suspect it would take me around 8 years to flow (480/5 per month). Do you think it would take more or less time to flow in reality, or are my expectations realistic?

Your guess is as good as anyone's. The only thing I know for sure is that in 3 years regional airlines will not look at all like they do today. There won't be anyone around to fly those airplanes, hopefully all the airplanes and pilots will be absorbed by mainline airlines.

Well, there goes NY. don't come to envoy if you're looking to be based there. Actually, just do yourself a favor and...don't come to envoy.

Last week, it was announced that American had reached an agreement with Bombardier Aerospace to purchase 24 additional CRJ900 NextGen regional jets, to be operated by PSA. As a result, the timeline of CRJ700 transfers from Envoy to PSA will be amended, with Envoy operating the CRJ700 aircraft type longer than previously planned.

Envoy will transfer 19 CRJ700s to PSA between June 2015 and January 2016. After January, there will be a hiatus in transfers before the 28 remaining CRJ700s are transferred to PSA, with the last transfer completed in 2017. This is good news for our team as it means that we will operate more large RJs in 2016 than we had previously anticipated.

At this time, we do not know what base the first 19 CRJ700s leaving Envoy will come from. American has, however, informed us that our EMB-140/145 operations at New York’s JFK and LGA airports will be replaced by another regional carrier by the fourth quarter of this year.

We are working to determine the impact on our New York based pilots, flight attendants and mechanics and to develop a transition timeline. We hope to accommodate as many of our impacted employees as possible at other locations in the system.

Envoy’s ground handling employees in LGA and JFK will continue to handle all American Eagle flights, regardless of operator, just as they do for American Eagle flights in Los Angeles (LAX) and Miami (MIA) today.

Looking ahead, Envoy is currently working with American to determine the initial operating location for the first of our new Embraer E175 aircraft, which is due to be delivered in November of this year. We hope to have more information to share with you soon.

Thank you for all you do – for our customers and each other.

Now new hires will be knocking the doors down to get in. Oh yes, how is that yes vote going for you.

Oh no thank you Mr Parker.

......Goodluck!

"we are working to determine the impact" on the ny employees
Does that need a spreadsheet?
This is double talk as most company communiques.
Here's your answer - you are losing your job but you can continue your pitiful existence in a geographical location that you never dreamed would be your home and most of your moving costs will be borne by you and your family will suffer because we can do that. Really, we hope the cost will be so high that you quit and we will not be liable for unemployment benefits as you voluntarily separated from a stellar AAG affiliate.

More bad news, we finally got a little hope then this. Any word on what carrier is going to get the planes?

TSA is getting 15 - probably those NYC birds according to POOL. The same ac different operator was the gist of the message.

Does anyone know the particulars of the flow through agreement? I read the language of it and I didn't see anything on whether or not you are required to upgrade to captain before flowing?... This would make a difference for me, and I assume many people, in choosing envoy because many of us put QOL before money. If I could be a senior FO flying turns until I get called (whether it be via flow or the app I will no doubt submit for a chance to be an off the street new hire) I think I could be ok with that.

I am a college student and am sitting on the sidelines, so to speak, with a little more than a year left of college and a CPL, watching the transformation of the industry right now and wondering if it may actually be a good idea to still consider the airline pilot career with all the projected retirements. I go to TCU (for those of you in the DFW area) and am faced with choosing a good paying job as soon as I graduate, or going to US aviation academy to finish my instructor ratings and getting a return on the 50k I spent getting the ratings I already have. Granted, I know I will not see the same income I could have by taking a job right after I graduate for awhile, but I think I may have weathered the storm and me be getting in at the perfect time if it's a couple of years from now? Any thoughts on that?

Is the industry really that bad guys? I've been scared away. I have read so many negative comments and articles it is so disheartening. I don't understand how everyone is still so toxic when everything points to the next 15 years being the best the industry has ever seen in terms of career potential. At least from all the research I've done. I know the last 15 years have been the worst, but it isn't too far fetched to think based on the facts that the old timers who got ****** by management, 911, '08 etc... to maybe tell the new generation of wannabe aviators that "ya know, it was terrible the last 15 years, but numbers don't lie, and the numbers point towards the next 15 years being some of the best the industry has ever seen!" Thoughts?!....:confused:

You will not be required to upgrade to CA before flowing to AA. That was only for the current group of flows (the 824), that was set up a long time ago, and is separate from the rest of the flow through. Yeah, things are crap at regionals like envoy right now, but who knows what the future holds. I think the company's know how bad staffing is going to get (and has already gotten), so they have thrown a Hail Mary to try and lock in crap pay and benefits now, because they KNOW they'll have to offer a LOT more to attract new talent in the near future. Endeavor is already offering a $20K / yr retention bonus, on top of the $24K minimum guarantee at first year pay. So a new hire at Endeavor could make a minimum $42K in year one. So far, envoy has not offered any such retention bonus. They seem to think that a flow through will entice new talent, but so far they have been proven wrong. A flow isn't going to do much good for a shrinking airline, if that airline ceases to exist at all. So far, the ones currently flowing have been here about 16 years.

312 thanks for the response! I heard about endeavor. It's exciting to see supply and demand theory at work in the regional industry. I know the industry is horrible right now at the regional level (I have friends at the regionals) but I cant help but try to embrace the "there's only one way you can go when you hit rock bottom" philosophy, and I have to believe that is where the industry has been and that it's on it's way out. God forbid it gets any worse than it already was/is.

I here you on the shrinking aspect, but I have a suspicion that it will be temporary and then will reverse considering the contract language. I think that at least some, if not all, the 90 frames will land on property in the future. Building off what you said about management locking in a crappy contract because they know they will have to offer way more in the near future, they will try to entice, and I think it will work, new hires with those frames and the flow because its a cheaper alternative than paying first year FO's 50k like they deserve. If anything the contract is 10 years right? Can AA shrink the regional to nothing per the contract or is there some sort of guarantee/clause for a minimum fleet? I really don't know.

Also, they can't shrink envoy to the point that it puts the flow pilots out of a job right? So as of right now isn't that like 1500 pilots, or even more? What are your thoughts on how things will really turn out, considering the 10 year contract, and the pilots on property right now that have flow through rights? Do you think that envoy will eventually get all 90 of those frames?

We will not get all 90 airplanes. Our management has no interest in running an airline anymore, for them it is nothing more than an organization from which they extract a big paycheck. With regard to the operational side of things, they have proven that they have no interest in investing even the basic amount of money required to keep the place running smoothly on a daily basis. According to the DOT, envoy has had the worst on time rating out of any airline in the nation for 4 months in a row now. It will only get worse. By the time you graduate, this airline will not exist in its current state. AAG can easily shrink it down to nothing. There is a flimsy furlough protection clause in the contract, but I've had the company breach the furlough section of the contract on me personally in the past, and they will gladly do it again tomorrow if it suits their needs.

Even for current FO's at this company, flow through is a joke. Senior FO's will have to wait about 2.5 to 3 years to flow over under ideal circumstances. Keep in mind these are guys who already have 7+ years in at a crappy regional and who are highly marketable everywhere else in the industry right now. History has shown that flow through agreements are highly volatile by nature (ask the guys who were hired at Eagle before 2001 and are JUST NOW flowing over). Waiting for the elusive carrot at the end of the stick that is flow through is a bad move for anyone not going within the next year. For a prospective new hire, it's completely useless in its current iteration.

I'm sure this question has been asked before but approximately how many years would it take for a new hire at Envoy (say June/July 2015 hire) to flow to AA?
Thank you.

The current pilots flowing were told they would only spend 3 years max at their regional. 16 years later, they are flowing, and stil having delays. YMMV.

10-20 years.... who knows with the way things work at AAG, its a gamble most are not willing to take after seeing that history held.

Well the document the company and the union put out before the latest TA claimed 2022 for someone hired in 2015. But this can go either way. In what the company would like people to believe now, we will shrink for the next year before some growth. Which will cause quick upgrades and fast flow(5 years new hire to flow). That is the unicorns and rainbows version of the future. It's possible but requires everything to go smoothly and probably more concessions(for oprions 42-xx). Others will tell you (see above) that they will cease all flight ops and be a ground handling company. Usually the truth is in the middle.

I would only consider Envoy if I could live in base. The flow can disappear for a new hire.

If 5-7yr flow comes to reality, I would definitely consider Envoy. Getting closer to 1500, gotta make a decision soon! Ugh

If you do your research. Historicly speaking "flow through" programs have worked for a very few select group... One peice of advice i give to all new in this business is never ever chase a "flow program" ...

That's what it says in the contract???

As has been mentioned before:

In 18 months Envoy will be at the optimum size AA wants. At THAT point it will be 5 years from new hire to flowing up to American Airlines. Numbers based on our flow through and pilot size.

For those who always love to bash the flow, you have to turn the other cheek. AA spent the better part of 15 years not hiring ANYBODY. Eagle/Envoy has only had a flow agreement for a relatively short time. And on that short time AA only recently started hiring and thus allowing flows.

You can take a look at the combined AA/Us Airways retirement numbers for yourself and you will see that hiring will not stop anytime soon at all. That means that pilots from Envoy will continue to flow each month..in November the flow rate goes up to 30/month. Pilots who come to Envoy ahead of the wave will be even better positioned. Everybody is flowing including many of the doomsdayers who in the past claimed the flow was fake. Now they are flying the line at AA in a 767 or Md-80.

Remember also an important part of
Our contract: you don't need to be Captain to flow to AA. An Envoy FO can flow up without ever having upgraded first.

And no, the flow can NOT just disappear for new hires. It is in the contract and any violations come with BIG gains through arbitration. It's how we got our original flow in the first place.

When is the wave predicted to begin?

Not directly, but this company had long seen compliance with labor contracts as optional in nature, and will follow a CBA only when convenient for them.

For example, our reserve section is still not Part 117 compliant. Instead of working constructively with the union to find a solution, they virtually overhauled our reserve system to the detriment of pilot QOL, merely to suit their needs.

Our union's response is to say "hey, stop it" which the company merely ignores. This behavior has been ongoing for years. The only reason why our current flow through is working according to plan is due to the fact that it was mandated by a judge. Once the 824 are over at AA, no further version of the flow is guaranteed by anything other than the company toilet paper... I mean the CBA.

PSA recruiters are already whining to doug parker that the flow through that we have now at Eagle isn't fair to them. That's exactly what TWA pilots said the last time around. They won.

If I had to bet money on it, I would say in 18 months when AA can advertise a 5 year new hire to AA flow. Anybody already here prior to that will be ahead of the game in multiple ways.

Since the Envoy is shrinking to its "optimal" size, how long do you think the reserve is for 2015 new hires?

And while it shrinking, prospect applicants shouldn't take into account that the company would be either dissolved or flow not being guaranteed at that time?

Envoy already employs upwards of 2000 pilots, any idea of how many current pilots will leave and how many total pilots they intend to employ after the new jets start arriving?

Why not PSA? They are in need of pilots to staff envoy's CRJ700's.

Goodluck!

PSA is actually my top choice but in the long run as envoys flow speeds up, it might be a better choice with career opportunities. I would choose AA in 5 years over almost no reserve and quick upgrade at PSA.
Only if i could rely on 5yr rumor....

He's trolling you. Don't take anything he says seriously. My advice? If your goal is to get to a major relatively quickly, don't go to PSA.

You will wait 20 years (literally) before an opportunity to interview with AA. And since PSA pilots can't be hired at AA outside that agreement, you have just eliminated one out of three majors..leaving your only options Delta and United. And now you are competing with the rest of the pack for the same jobs. Military pilots..Captains from JetBlue and Spirit, pilots from Atlas and Omni with 747 type ratings, etc...

Plus the thousands you will spend attending job fairs just for a 5 minute handshake with a recruiter, plus thousands more on interview prep companies...

That's the game most pilots have to play because they have no other choice. But an airline with an enhanced flow and shrinking pilot group like Envoy is good insurance.

One could say the same for you.

Because of statements like that. Show me where that's written down.

If someone is basing their decision solely based on flow as it is currently today, I'd go to PDT.

That's exactly what I am thinking right now. I wanted to go to envoy before MEC confirmed but then ppl saying flow would take over 10yearz and envoy has long reserve (given the current trend I think it's ok to consider it without offending senior pilots who have been in reserve for years) made me reconsider. hence PSA.
UNTIL I read a resent article about PSA morale is down/AA internal meeting video saying that the flow will be reduced to 5 years soon (for me that'd be about 6.5yr flow I think) and PSA contract prevents their pilots to apply at AA
Now back to Envoy

Seems like while the company is becoming small to its "optimal" size. Some consider it as the company fm going down.

Do you know much about DFW and ny base? Reserve time. Which planes etc. I'll be commuting from KFLL.

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.