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04-14-2018, 02:33 AM

#7911

ag386

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Joined APC: Dec 2015

Posts: 540

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesthunder

The add or the summary page? Because I had the summary page corrected.

I'm not sure. But either way it goes, 5 years or 6 years to AA, nobody who is hired today will flow in 5 years or 6 years. Same old song, just being put out by different people. Back in 99 new hires were being told 4 years to AA. In 2011, new hires were told 5 years to AA. Guess what? None of it happened. The date of hire of the most recent flow was late 2006. So, just under a 12 year flow.

I can see a new unsuspecting sap buying this baloney but ask anyone at Envoy who has been on property for a year or more if they still buy it?

04-14-2018, 02:51 AM

#7912

moon

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Joined APC: Dec 2015

Posts: 687

I understand the hostility arising here after yet another let down by Aa/envoy management, but this bickering amongst the pilot group only emboldens management. They love to fracture us as seen by the 4 flow through agreements we had after the last contract. Stick together and fight for a better contract for everyone.

04-14-2018, 04:57 AM

#7913

Smutter

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Thread Starter

Joined APC: Jul 2015

Posts: 667

I find it funny the union really thinks the company is negotiating, and surprised AA said no. Envoy knows exactly what AA will except, all this is, is Envoy showing it is willing to negotiate and AA is the bad guy. Now, if this goes to arbitration, the arbitrator will take this into consideration and that will benefit Envoy. If this goes the route of negotiating, then the company will win again, Sam and the NC will happily agree to 1/2 of whatever the arbitrator would have awarded.

04-14-2018, 05:42 AM

#7914

moon

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Joined APC: Dec 2015

Posts: 687

The last time we got something positive was when Envoy started hemorrhaging pilots and new hire classes dwindled. Afraid we have to wait for that to happen again. If I was in my 40s I'd be heading to spirit. You'd make way more money over there through a career. Would never see wide body captain at American so whats the point in slugging along at envoy when you could enjoy better QOL and better pay at spirit.

04-14-2018, 07:38 AM

#7915

EmbaeDriver

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Joined APC: Mar 2018

Posts: 208

Are we the worst regional right now?

04-14-2018, 07:50 AM

#7916

copycopy

Line Holder

Joined APC: Jul 2014

Posts: 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoValueAviator

Entitlement? I pay dues, it’s okay for me to expect the union to represent my interests in some way. Promising concessions (from me) to get a faster flow (for you) doesn’t count.

If the group ahead of you flows faster you also flow faster - how is that not an improvement for everybody after the post protected pilots? In reality if you are after the protected pilots then that is the group you want flowing faster due to the compounding nature of flow through. The more that flow ahead of you the faster you flow.

The questions is whether or not we can achieve that goal without selling the farm, the house, and the kitchen sink. We still need improvements for those who are going to be on property for 2, 3, and 4+ more years.

04-14-2018, 07:51 AM

#7917

3GreenKSNA

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Joined APC: Mar 2007

Position: ERJ Right

Posts: 541

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmbaeDriver

Are we the worst regional right now?

Compass is canceling vacations and making captains fly in the right seat. The pilot group has no idea if they will have any flying past 2020 as all CPAs expire then.

-Keep the dirty side down

04-14-2018, 08:48 AM

#7918

Smutter

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Joined APC: Jul 2015

Posts: 667

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmbaeDriver

Are we the worst regional right now?

Yes........

04-14-2018, 09:08 AM

#7919

EmbaeDriver

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Joined APC: Mar 2018

Posts: 208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smutter

Yes........

What about ExpressJet and Mesa?

Express pays like $10 per hour and Mesa sucks.

04-14-2018, 09:39 AM

#7920

Smutter

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Thread Starter

Joined APC: Jul 2015

Posts: 667

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmbaeDriver

What about ExpressJet and Mesa?

Express pays like $10 per hour and Mesa sucks.

Not true about Express jet. They make what we make. Plus minus 1 whole dollar at certain years. They have way better rules then us also. Now, they may be gone soon, but for now, still better. If your talking about the asa side, well yeah you win there. Mesa, they have always been the worst. People only go there for bad reasons. Can't count Mesa. Always the worst and always will be. People there, know what they're getting into. But a lot of pilots there are there because they have no choice (Mesa folks don't waste your breath about arguing that. I put in "a lot of pilots there" so you won't have to protect yourself)