Envoy
04-13-2018 | 10:15 PM
#7911
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Amen...! Don't forget paying the taxes for the D2 flights you commuted on!
We were FO's, the 49% minority at the time, so while the 'then' captains took less of a hit, those of us hired between 2010 and 2014 (then FO's) got hit especially hard. Now we're CA's, and once again find ourselves the forgotten minority, as over half the pilot group has been hired in the past 2 years. We stayed and kept this place afloat during draconian times, while Jerry Glass ran half the pilot group off. Now they want to rebuild, but there's no reward for the 2010 - 2014 hires that are still here. The only thing holding those here, is patiently waiting on thier 9 year flow.
I don't think the newer guys are 'entitled' per say. They just have a whole different set of concerns than we did between 2011 and 2015.
It's definitely a different (and brighter) picture here now, then there was 5 years ago. I don't wish anyone to have to go through what we did during the BK and merger days. But I believe that those of us that survived those times and navigated this ship through those storms definitely deserve to be treated and respected honorably by the company. (I.e. honor the flow through agreement, move us past the post BK and post merger contracts and bring us QOL on par w/ the rest of the industry, stop persecuting us for Add Fuel, sick calls, ect...)
We were FO's, the 49% minority at the time, so while the 'then' captains took less of a hit, those of us hired between 2010 and 2014 (then FO's) got hit especially hard. Now we're CA's, and once again find ourselves the forgotten minority, as over half the pilot group has been hired in the past 2 years. We stayed and kept this place afloat during draconian times, while Jerry Glass ran half the pilot group off. Now they want to rebuild, but there's no reward for the 2010 - 2014 hires that are still here. The only thing holding those here, is patiently waiting on thier 9 year flow.
I don't think the newer guys are 'entitled' per say. They just have a whole different set of concerns than we did between 2011 and 2015.
It's definitely a different (and brighter) picture here now, then there was 5 years ago. I don't wish anyone to have to go through what we did during the BK and merger days. But I believe that those of us that survived those times and navigated this ship through those storms definitely deserve to be treated and respected honorably by the company. (I.e. honor the flow through agreement, move us past the post BK and post merger contracts and bring us QOL on par w/ the rest of the industry, stop persecuting us for Add Fuel, sick calls, ect...)
04-13-2018 | 11:59 PM
#7912
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
That email was cringey. Protected Pilots? Great for them, they've paid their dues, but does the union care about the rest of us at all? The answer is painfully obvious.
Looking forward to the announcement that 5 more of the all-important Protected Pilots will be flowing per month... in exchange for voiding the flow-through agreement for all other pilots, who will get a sweet guaranteed interview opportunity instead.
Looking forward to the announcement that 5 more of the all-important Protected Pilots will be flowing per month... in exchange for voiding the flow-through agreement for all other pilots, who will get a sweet guaranteed interview opportunity instead.
Also, the grievance is specifically for the protected pilot group flow through because it is being violated now. You can't grieve something that hasn't happened yet. More flow means higher relative seniority which means better QOL.
Also, you were the one that chose to come to an airline that has a management that fixes its issues by offering NH bonuses instead of fixing the QOL issues for its current pilots. I get advocating for better QOL and better pay but do you remember the last time we got a significant pay bump at Envoy? Yep Fall of 2015 and do you know who got the majority of the money? Yep you did. You got more than 20 times more money than many of the protected pilots got. Fair?? You weren't even paying dues yet and you got this. Not trying to keep you from advocating for better pay and QOL but just trying to give you some prospective.
I'd suggest you give up your NVA tag for a bit. You haven't earned it yet.
Last edited by Pedro4President; 04-14-2018 at 12:23 AM.
04-14-2018 | 02:33 AM
#7913
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
I can see a new unsuspecting sap buying this baloney but ask anyone at Envoy who has been on property for a year or more if they still buy it?
04-14-2018 | 02:51 AM
#7914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
I understand the hostility arising here after yet another let down by Aa/envoy management, but this bickering amongst the pilot group only emboldens management. They love to fracture us as seen by the 4 flow through agreements we had after the last contract. Stick together and fight for a better contract for everyone.
04-14-2018 | 04:57 AM
#7915
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
I find it funny the union really thinks the company is negotiating, and surprised AA said no. Envoy knows exactly what AA will except, all this is, is Envoy showing it is willing to negotiate and AA is the bad guy. Now, if this goes to arbitration, the arbitrator will take this into consideration and that will benefit Envoy. If this goes the route of negotiating, then the company will win again, Sam and the NC will happily agree to 1/2 of whatever the arbitrator would have awarded.
04-14-2018 | 05:42 AM
#7916
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
The last time we got something positive was when Envoy started hemorrhaging pilots and new hire classes dwindled. Afraid we have to wait for that to happen again. If I was in my 40s I'd be heading to spirit. You'd make way more money over there through a career. Would never see wide body captain at American so whats the point in slugging along at envoy when you could enjoy better QOL and better pay at spirit.
04-14-2018 | 07:50 AM
#7918
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
The questions is whether or not we can achieve that goal without selling the farm, the house, and the kitchen sink. We still need improvements for those who are going to be on property for 2, 3, and 4+ more years.
04-14-2018 | 07:51 AM
#7919
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
From: ERJ Right
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