Originally Posted by MD-11Loader

I have found the lifers to be all really great to fly with (except one notorious captain). They tend to be a wealth of knowledge and are mostly great guys. Some chose to stay because they couldn't afford the year one paycut, or because of age 65, 9/11, SARS, the economic downturn, etc. I don't fault people for making difficult decisions. It's easy for us to sit there and second guess them, but any of us could be in their shoes.

Originally Posted by AZPilotMike

Agree 100%. I feel the lifers have all been very good to me and I appreciate their guidance. What I find interesting is they all have very valid reasons for not flowing or moving on, mostly though due to age and loss of QOL, both of which I can 100% agree with.

Originally Posted by Ar Pilot

Ehh majority of them will tell you after a couple of beers on the overnight that they had their chance and screwed up an interview or two with United or SWA back in the day and they didn’t have much of a choice but to stay at Eagle.

Originally Posted by griff312

A lot of those lifers were duped, just like we could possibly be. They were promised a 2 year flow a few decades ago when AMR brought the first jets, the E140 / 145 to the regionals. Long story long: AMR offered them at AA for regional pay rates. Knowing APA would say no. But scope wouldn't allow jets to be flown at regionals because it would threaten mainline jobs. AMR offered APA job protection, in the form of a flowback, if they would allow the E-jets to be flown at Eagle. At Eagle, the flowback threatened thier pilot's seats, as a fowback would displace a CA, and furlough an FO. So in return, AMR also offered a flow up (flow through), and told those guys they'd be the first ones hired at AA, once AA started hiring again. Eagle pilots had to sign a 2 year training agreement to get the jets online. They were hesitant that AA would hire in droves while they were stuck at Eagle for the next 2 years, and lose seniority. AMR said, "don't worry, we don't plan on hiring during those 2 years, and once the 2 years are up, you'll go straight to AA". As soon as the deal was signed by all parties, AA went and aquired 2 airlines, stapled thier pilots to the bottom of the list and furloughed a lot of them, whom now became flowbacks to Eagle. This displaced CA's to the right seat, and furloughed FO's. ALPA grieved, and won. The arbitrator decided that 824 pilots were ultimately harmed (I won't go into the 232). Those 824 pilots were awarded fowthrough to AA, at a rate of 50% of every new hire class. Of course AA wasn't hiring. (9/11, age 65, ect...) Those 824 were told time after time that thier flow was "just around the corner". Alot of them interviewed and were offered jobs at other airlines (Airtran, NWA, US Air, Continental, United, SW, everywhere...) but since flow was "just around the corner", they elected to stay since they got to carry over doh for vacation, and such. They felt tethered here. By the time flow actually DID come around, almost 10 -15 years later, they only had so many years left to retirement. Not enough years left to gain back the pay lost going from senior CA to new hire FO. So they elected to stay. These guys learned from thier mistakes and have helped teach us in the next generation to not repeat those mistakes. So before you discount those "Lifers", try to learn where they came from. You're (We're) only one bad executive move from becoming lifers ourselves.

Originally Posted by griff312

A lot of those lifers were duped, just like we could possibly be. They were promised a 2 year flow a few decades ago when AMR brought the first jets, the E140 / 145 to the regionals. Long story long: AMR offered them at AA for regional pay rates. Knowing APA would say no. But scope wouldn't allow jets to be flown at regionals because it would threaten mainline jobs. AMR offered APA job protection, in the form of a flowback, if they would allow the E-jets to be flown at Eagle. At Eagle, the flowback threatened thier pilot's seats, as a fowback would displace a CA, and furlough an FO. So in return, AMR also offered a flow up (flow through), and told those guys they'd be the first ones hired at AA, once AA started hiring again. Eagle pilots had to sign a 2 year training agreement to get the jets online. They were hesitant that AA would hire in droves while they were stuck at Eagle for the next 2 years, and lose seniority. AMR said, "don't worry, we don't plan on hiring during those 2 years, and once the 2 years are up, you'll go straight to AA". As soon as the deal was signed by all parties, AA went and aquired 2 airlines, stapled thier pilots to the bottom of the list and furloughed a lot of them, whom now became flowbacks to Eagle. This displaced CA's to the right seat, and furloughed FO's. ALPA grieved, and won. The arbitrator decided that 824 pilots were ultimately harmed (I won't go into the 232). Those 824 pilots were awarded fowthrough to AA, at a rate of 50% of every new hire class. Of course AA wasn't hiring. (9/11, age 65, ect...) Those 824 were told time after time that thier flow was "just around the corner". Alot of them interviewed and were offered jobs at other airlines (Airtran, NWA, US Air, Continental, United, SW, everywhere...) but since flow was "just around the corner", they elected to stay since they got to carry over doh for vacation, and such. They felt tethered here. By the time flow actually DID come around, almost 10 -15 years later, they only had so many years left to retirement. Not enough years left to gain back the pay lost going from senior CA to new hire FO. So they elected to stay. These guys learned from thier mistakes and have helped teach us in the next generation to not repeat those mistakes. So before you discount those "Lifers", try to learn where they came from. You're (We're) only one bad executive move from becoming lifers ourselves.

Originally Posted by SullyJR

More bad news.