Is ExpressJet that bad?
 

Hello. First post. I'm not sure If I'm just witnessing a ****ing match, but is Expressjet THAT bad as it seems in some threads? TBH I can't tell what complaints are genuine vs grass is greener stuff.

Well the way United operates any United feed is not a good place to be. The contract and work rules are still good, medical benefits are good... Pay is way behind now compared to the others, no career progression, little upgrading, the CPP is not legit.... Only way i see someone goin to Xjt is if you live in the base and need quick 121 experience and able to move on if able to. Its simple supply and demand and when there is little supply, people go to the best paying best career progression airline... Xjt like any other is 1 big announcement and new contract away from being the "the place to be" again This is a crazy industry and you just never know anymore

Man, it’s a phenomenal pilot group. It was a great place to work until SKYWEST came into the picture. The ****ing match between us and ASA isnt as bad as what people think it is. We have our bad apples, they have theirs, but the majority of us just want to come to work and make th best of it.

Our contract is still great, yes, the pay has fallen behind, but if United wants XJT to survive, something will have to be done, soon, and they know it. It could work in the pilots’ favor, or it couldn’t. Who knows.

You hear a lot of bad here, but it’s mostly the 1% of the angriest that post. I’ve heard “XYZ Airlines is buying us, next month, on the 15th” for about 10 years, but I’ve also heard “we’re going out of business” for the last 10 years.

I feel like good things are coming, but in the end, you gotta make what decision is best for you.

XJT is great! Seriously. Both the L-ASA and L-XJT groups are full of class acts that are great to be around. Our contract is too old though. The L-XJT contract has been through two extensions and one concession. That being said it isn’t awful. Just needs updating. Also our working relationship with management is great. Out of all the regionals (from just what I hear) our chiefs look to back you up more than discipline.

But what overshadows any of the good is the the future not only is unclear but appears to be almost hopelessly short. Which drives morale down to the dumps.

We are shutting down. We are now about 1300 strong from around 4000 we use to have.

i LOVE it here, but:
1- I live in base. I wake up 2 hours prior departure time
2. I have established business providing for me and family.
3. Not planning on retiring in this industry.
4. Stroooopwafffels are awesome!!!

It all depends on who you ask. Senior pilots (15 plus year captains) will most likely say we have a good contract with 4 weeks vacation a year, rather small percentage match on 401k (not bad for regional industry though) and undoubtedly great insurance. In addition the forcible indoctrination exerted on pilots during many years, and supported by the Union to create the general idea that XJT pilots are well remunerated thanks to our outdated contract. Then yes, XJT is a great company. If you ask new guys, well, they will say that XJT sucks.

Its not that xjt is a bad place to be, they have just haven't really kept up with the others.

They have several huge drawbacks: Super long (about 7 years) upgrade time, pay lagging behind most of the industry right now, the cpp they have with united is quite the enigma as to when you will actually move to united. I know guys that have interviewed and passed and still have 2 years+ to wait. It was near the top at one point of places to go, but now endeavor and all 3 AA regionals offer better pay and/or career progression than xjt can. Arguably, so does Airwis, republic, skywest now too.

If you're just starting out in this business I think you have nothing to lose by coming here except six months seniority somewhere else. XJT is like one of those stocks that's been beaten down. If you get in on the bottom and things turn around you look like a genius. If things do fold you've lost little.
Personally, I don't see things folding. The CRJ side lost the DAL flying last summer and the transition to Endeavor picking it up hasn't been as great as all the suits thought it would be. This isn't 2012 when Comair pilots had nowhere else to go. Pilots immediately started leaving for SkyWest and UAL's competition and it's gotten so bad that the CEO of Inc has had several meetings with the ERJ/CRJ MEC chairmen on how to stem the hemorrhaging pilot numbers. We were supposed to keep flying until the end of 2018, but that slipped to October 2018 due to a lack of pilots. Now there are rumors that we will shut down the DAL flying this summer. DAL asked us to hold off delivery of the final -900's as Endeavor couldn't staff them, but we told them the schedule is set and they can pay the leases on airplanes that sit, not us.
So that leaves us with UAL flying. UAL tried to transfer the ERJ's to CommuteAir, but they had issues taking as many as they said they could. I hear the transfer is picking up again, but both sides are pretty much taking ERJ's out of the desert as soon as they can man them. The idea of someone suddenly being able to find pilots to staff 100+ ERJ's in this environment is ludicrous. But then again, it is United. Who knows what they will try to do.
As for the rumors that UAL is/has purchased us... well, look around at this forum. The same rumor is floating around every UAL feeder in some shape or form.

Not sure where you're hearing that, each aircraft has been online in the required time, and 9E is overstaffed for the additional flying right now, they planned for this well out. Biggest issue has been the multitude of bugs to be worked out in each tail coming over.

Then why were we asked by DAL to take on a bunch of flying in March that couldn’t be covered if E9 was well positioned?
And why is DAL paying out CRJ pilots bonuses to stay on until the end of the contract if E9 is well positioned to take the flying and overstaffed? I’m sure it’s because they have a soft spot for us and feel bad about what they did. 🙄

1. Not a clue, but every single jet scheduled has been on the line within days of required time, and endeavor has slowed down hiring due to staffing. March specifically? Tremendous number of IROPs in NYC, but looking over the 9E numbers, nothing at least on the two class side has been affected by staffing. Delta is fine with 9E, and looking to add more to their fleet.

2. Because 9E isn't taking over the 700s, and until Skywest gets their 175SCs operational and in NYC, somebody needs to stay flying to the end of the year. Those tails have to stay flying until Skywest has their equivalent 70 seaters delivered and NYC up and running- that isn't a 9E fault.

Since E9 isn’t an airline for DCI, I’m not sure how your covering their flying. But if you want to think that to feel better about your corporate minders in SGU bending you over, that’s fine.

1. I didn’t say DAL is not fine with 9E. I see GoJet aircraft as the next ones to be transferred to 9E.
The March flying was picked up BEFORE the IROP. DAL asked us to pick up the flying in March well before- far enough out that we bid for it. Our bottom windows for March DAL flying was over 95 hours. I’ve never seen it that high.
I imagine the issue is the same issue Envoy is running into- not enough captains.
2. Then why does the 9E website show them taking over some of the -700’s? Is the website incorrect?
The issue with SkyWest manning things was part of my point. I think Inc assumed some of our pilots would leave and go over to their side. The vast majority went to Endeavor, Envoy and ULCC’s.

1. Understand now. Yes EDV needs captains but not to the point of cancelling. Not sure what's happening behind the scenes there.

2. Technically 3 700s from ASA (I more referred to the brunt of the 700s, the EV tailed Delta doesn't own), but the other 20 something are totally leaving DCI, and those are the ones hanging on until Skywest gets 175SCs running. EDV has 2/3 700s running already. My guess is OO won't have NYC 175 running exactly on time, so DAL needs ASA flying those 700s until the last day. And yes I agree about staffing. I've yet to meet an ASA guy going to OO, but we've had many welcomed here.

I'm no fan of what's going on, and would rather keep ASA around and have another ALPA DCI carrier. I'd never step foot in OO seeing what they've done. They gladly took 9E planes during bankruptcy

We are leaving LGA end of May. Initially it was supposed to stay open until the fall. But attrition has been so high (we are down to about 450 pilots), that this changed. All hands will be trying to keep ATL staffed until the end, but not sure if that will work while also fulfilling the AAL contract in DFW. There are even rumors about our $20k DAL bonus increasing.

LOL. No surprise

I have never seen a transfer of aircraft, military or civilian, where that has not been the case.

Its not a bad place, there is just absolutely no future here. Skywest will continue to bleed us dry until we shut the doors because they've just become a cannibal over the last 5+ years. Both airlines were bought so they could grow at our expense. Our mgmt continues to pump false hope and the tow the line from st. George. When we transferred the 200s out it was to focus on profitable 700 flying. When we cancelled the Delta 700 contract it was to take on profitable e145 flying. Next tower to tumble will be DFW to Skywest because we can't staff the crj (and ill be shocked btw) and the United 145s will be done within 2-3 years at best. Don't come here, go somewhere that has a future and REAL career advancement.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think the landscape is different than it was in 2012 when Comair was shut down and the suits are finally waking up to this. I think CC and company are realizing they just handed their competition about 1000 trained pilots who are getting tough to replace, even if they aren't your fair haired favorites.

For a new hire, if they live close to one of the XJT bases I don't think they have anything to lose by coming here, get the training and give it 6-12 months. But I would encourage them not to get comfortable. If there still isn't a tangible long term future here outside of the 145's punch out and make a lateral move. Like I said, I view it as making a gamble with some extra money on a penny stock. You haven't invested your life savings as some of us were foolish enough to do so if things don't pan out you move on after a year. If things do turn around then you hit a home run.

I definitely thought the LASA side had a solid contract until at least 2020. (That’s when t was supposed to expire.). That was very profitable flying at one time.

But we saw how that went.

SKYW will definitely close down LXJT. I hate it, but it will happen. They are making an example of what happens to unionized work groups.

Another factor is that SKYW mgmt nowadays is not run by Atkins. I think he had different plans. The new tactic seems to be almost a corporate raider mentality.

While possible (I also didn't see the CRJ news coming this soon), I don't think Inc will risk losing the number of pilots they just lost from the CRJ side. Same with UAL... though who knows what they really think.
With DAL they had an operation up and running with Endeavor to absorb LASA pilot after the contract termination was announced, and many went there (and Envoy). Currently I don't see UAL having anything similar. Their initial attempt to give CommutAir ERJs didn't go well. That is picking up again, but don't see them being able to field 100+ ERJ's if they had issues handling what... about 20? I guess UAL could swoop in and purchase someone else and set them up, but it took DAL a few years to get Endeavor to the point where they could handle the airplanes.
But again, to the OP's point. None of us really knows what will happen. We could be the next Comair, or we could turn into Endeavor. Or something else. I think a year of seniority would not be losing much to give it a shot if the bases are right for him/her.

A year can be a big deal in this industry.

If anyone has the option, I would recommend one of the regionals with an actual flow through. I hear 2013 hires are flowing from PSA right now.

Of course, your point about bases is a good one. Everyone's situation is different, and that could be a huge consideration for some.

But people need to know what they are getting into. If anyone has a long-term future planned out at a regional, this ain't it. Hell, I think even SKYW wouldn't be a long-term plan. Those guys are getting a seniority problem as well. We have seen what happens to seniority-heavy regionals.

A year can be a big deal but much of that depends on your age. If you are in your late 40's that year is a really big deal. In your mid 20's, not so much.
Still, I do usually recommend one of the AAL feeders as well, though I tell pilots not to rely on the flow and to get apps out, just use it as a backup.
Yeah, I do think Inc pilots will start to see their fast upgrades slowing down. The fact that CC and other Inc management expressed concerns about XJT pilot attrition was telling.
But any pilot in this industry should view what happened here as a wakeup call not to get comfortable until the logo on your paycheck matches the logo on the tail.

Yeah and even if the Paycheck/Tail Logo is the same, you still aren't out of the woods. Look at Eastern, Pan Am, TWA & Braniff, et. al..
I was on a United JS Recently with two distinguished old Gentleman & they had a pretty funny conversation (black humor) about how many times that they had been furloughed in their Careers at various Airlines AND at United.
This ain't a Career for Sissies. You're gonna get hit hard a few times with something or other, be it Airline Bankruptcy, up to and including full Dissolution of your Airline, Medical Issues, Divorce, or simply having to choose between a (non) Life of either Commuting, or uprooting the Family every few years as Domiciles come and go. I would argue that this is not a good Family oriented Career as well, hence the high divorce and Family break up rate.
Probably best for People, Gay or Straight, that decide to not have a Family, or pets and maybe their Partner/Significant Other is also at the Airline and they can bid together. Those People might have a good go of it, or maybe you just get lucky and it's all Sunshine & Unicorns.

Much depends on luck, but much also depends on who you are. My marriage is still strong after 25+ years, and I know as many pilots who are still married as I do who are divorced. While many of the latter blame it on the airlines, they really need to look in the mirror, or at their former spouse for the root of the problem.

Full heartedly disagree about the family part. I have lots of friends that sit in traffic, an hour each day, just to wheel into the same 9-5 rat race that everyone else is. Those guys miss more ball games and practices than I do....and I’m a 13 year regional guy still on min days off....Yes, holidays, birthdays, and anniversaries are never easy to miss, but if you make your time off more about enjoying your time together with family, the job is easy. I’m on 3 weeks vacay right now, and I picked up a trip because my wife is getting irritated with me being home (HA!)

If you and the wife want to make it work, you can. It just takes commitment from both people. In today’s morally bankrupt society, giving up is the easy part.

No life as a commuter? Depends, although, I would argue that living in the majority of cesspool legacy hubs is more than worth the commute. I choose to commute because I want my children to live near family. Commuting adds a few hours a week to this chaotic career, but it’s nice to not be hung up in city traffic, high tax rates, or riding in urine soaked trains/subways.

To each their own, but, I’m able to truly enjoy my days off.

My Marriage has remained intact as well, though not much else has, haha.
I merely try and wave the cautionary flag after so many will vigorously wave the B.S. Flag.
To "Fly" through this Career unscathed, I believe, is the exception & not the rule. YMMV.

I agree. People talk about the bad luck you can have, pilots who flew for Pan Am, Braniff, TWA. Well, that happens in every industry. In 1973 my dad went from being a VP at a Fortune 500 company to scrubbing buildings and selling firewood to pay the mortgage. I got to be good at fishing, not for enjoyment but because fried fish goes well with scrambled eggs for breakfast and we didn't have money for sausage.
No one wanted to hire a 50 year old executive. It crushed him, here he was a proud WWII vet with a Purple Heart but he couldn't provide for his family. He turned to alcohol but he remained a good father and husband. He may have been drunk when he came to my lacrosse games, but he was still there and he was a polite drunk- only my mom, girlfriend and I knew he was sauced. And he still spent what little extra money he had trying to make my mom happy.
So yeah, there are tough things about this job. But I've had jobs that sucked and can think of many that are worse than being an airline pilot.

I was on one of your jumpseats recently and a check airman was telling me about the low quality pilot applicants that you guys are getting now. He was complaining about pilots having to repeat multiple sims (no one fails AQP, you just do it over) and not being fired after months in the program due to multiple unsatisfactory training sessions and then requiring excessive IOE. He said that needing 100 hours was common. Was he bitter and blowing smoke or is there really a problem? The crews that I have seen in the jumpseat have been fine and I find it hard to believe that any pilot who fails multiple sims would still be employed after just a couple failures. Needing 100 hours is also crazy.

ExpressJet announced its greatness today: we go to Jackson Hole now! Problems solved!

No word on how that flight attendant is doing in flight training though.... I’m getting concerned.

It’s not every new hire but it’s not just one or two.

I find it troubling that the ones that can’t keep up are able to stay. I don’t want them flying my family around. We were all new at one time but I have never heard of being able to have that many failures and stay employed. Some people should be washed out.

So far I have not had any issues with FOs on the line being able to fly, but I’m on the CRJ side and we don’t see new hires any more. Heck, it’s a rare day I fly with an actual FO. Normally it’s a four striper.
Instructor moral seems pretty low. Last AQP was pretty depressing. Of course these are senior guys who put their hearts and souls into supporting DAL for years and don’t even get to keep their retiree pass benefits they were promised. Kind of feels like your wife has run off with your younger neighbor and cleaned out you bank account in the process.

I don’t disagree. I had a conversation with a new hire recently that “traditionally” training was (and still is at the next level) cooperate and graduate. Not the hand hold you see at the regional level. He was dumbfounded that you couldn’t just “train till you felt good.”

It’s not just an XJT problem. To take it to an extreme look at when colgan was desperate for pilots. Now all regionals are.

You now find this is the issue at every regional. They are all doing all they can to get a pilot through.

Eh. It’s the same old story. You get good Newbies that try to learn then you get the ones who can’t fly talking about direct entry captain positions.

Do these pilots think that they have a future in a world where training records follow you? I can’t imagine a LCC or major airline regardless of if it is an off the street interview or some type of CPP deal looking at an applicant who has had multiple repeat sims or especially 100 hours of IOE needed just to pass and saying that they will do. Busting a private pilot ride 15 years ago or having one bad day in the sim can be explained, but how does an applicant to a major expect that they have a chance with that kind of record? Hopefully all of the mainline airlines will be forced to bring more flying in house because of this. I was really hoping that the guy that I was talking to was full of it. Glad you’re getting some good ones, but it sounds like there is an unacceptable number of bad ones too. The problem is that they are not being fired and sent home. If the flying public knew about this the legacy companies would have a mess on their hands.

Ah...even if the legacies do bring flying in house, will better pilots magically appear? Anyhow, the legacies need their C scale/outsourced flying; how else can they keep paying their A scale pilots? Granted the C scale rate is increasing, but it’s no where near what an A scale would demand. Put your family on a LCC, they aren’t hiring pulse pilots yet, and they still wash out weakness regularly. Think about it; through the CPP, United is vetting its outsourced labor. The pilots they evaluate unsatisfactory are sent back to the left seat of a jet they possibly own, but outsource. The public/jury may find it hard to understand why something happened on a flight with a pilot United vetted unworthy to be a 737 FO, but a ok to Captain a 175.

[QUOTE=Punkpilot48;2565989]ExpressJet announced its greatness today: we go to Jackson Hole now! Problems solved!

Don't forget female pilots on ERJ now can wear the same pilot shirts as United's female Pilots. Huge announcement