The Deal's Not Done
08-29-2019, 09:48 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by itsmytime
So who signed this turd? Contract isn’t even a year old, why did anyone think this was a good deal in this market?
If a trip is unproductive (under an avg 5.5-7 hours credit per day) which 70% are in open time simply don’t pick it up, duty rigs only cover up for those things. They keep canceling flights for staffing sooner or later United will feel it and things will change.
08-29-2019, 10:12 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 242
The pairings are designed to have sit time in order to keep the pilots at the airport. It gives them available pilots when shtf operationally. Doesn't cost them anything extra and they don't have to call out as many reserves to cover open segments. As long as our contract doesn't change, they can continue to use this to keep the operation going day to day without adding cost in the form of duty rigs.
08-29-2019, 10:37 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by SureJetz
Yep, the company has zero interest in attracting new hires with things that are pretty much industry standard by this point, to include but are not exclusive to:
-Commuter hotels - We have none
https://youtu.be/3Qwr4hlvHLE?t=298
-Duty Rigs (work a 12hr day and get paid as little as 2 hrs, we have NONE! Most airlines are 2:1 so in this case you get paid 6 hrs)
-Min day pay of 2 hrs currently (industry standard is 3.75)
-Premium pay if you go over 80-85 hrs a month
-12 days off a month minimum for reservists (currently 11 on 30 day months, 12 for 31 day months. Doesn't sound like a big difference but it's huge). We are the only airline that I know of that offers as little as 11 days off a month. Have fun commuting in to EWR the night before, paying for your hotel and then getting stuck on one of your 2 days off in base because the trips start EARLY and finish LATE.
-?
-?
Subodh refuses to come to the table to negotiate industry standard items that vastly improve QOL without a huge outlay in expense. Both min day pay and duty rigs give incentive to the company to build more efficient pairings and maximize days off. Those things that allow you to be with friends and family instead of sitting at the airport on a 4-5 hr sit or working low credit 4 days with only 12 days off a month.
He'd rather captivate the new hires with shinny 175's that are flown to flight schools (Riddle, Southern Illinois, etc.) and get them on property with a bonus (handcuffs) before they figure out that the CPP is a sham and this place is just another airline being whipsawed against the other 8 in United's portfolio.
-Commuter hotels - We have none
https://youtu.be/3Qwr4hlvHLE?t=298
-Duty Rigs (work a 12hr day and get paid as little as 2 hrs, we have NONE! Most airlines are 2:1 so in this case you get paid 6 hrs)
-Min day pay of 2 hrs currently (industry standard is 3.75)
-Premium pay if you go over 80-85 hrs a month
-12 days off a month minimum for reservists (currently 11 on 30 day months, 12 for 31 day months. Doesn't sound like a big difference but it's huge). We are the only airline that I know of that offers as little as 11 days off a month. Have fun commuting in to EWR the night before, paying for your hotel and then getting stuck on one of your 2 days off in base because the trips start EARLY and finish LATE.
-?
-?
Subodh refuses to come to the table to negotiate industry standard items that vastly improve QOL without a huge outlay in expense. Both min day pay and duty rigs give incentive to the company to build more efficient pairings and maximize days off. Those things that allow you to be with friends and family instead of sitting at the airport on a 4-5 hr sit or working low credit 4 days with only 12 days off a month.
He'd rather captivate the new hires with shinny 175's that are flown to flight schools (Riddle, Southern Illinois, etc.) and get them on property with a bonus (handcuffs) before they figure out that the CPP is a sham and this place is just another airline being whipsawed against the other 8 in United's portfolio.
Wonder what Swayne would think of our commuter policy, unlimited 2 attempts and 3 1 attempts per rolling 12 months? I believe that’s industry leading. Oh and for proof you just have to show there were seats available using any travel app you wish. Don’t even need a pass. So if your flights cancel due to weather, you don’t even have to drive to the airport. And yes, it’s an unlimited benefit with the 2 flight rule.
And thanks for showing us all you know with the comment about not knowing of any other airline with 11 min days off. In fact, Ol’ Swayne might think that’s a good deal as well. I’m pretty sure his airline is 11 min days off for all pilots regardless of the length of the month or lineholder status.
Now you do raise a couple of good points. It would be nice to have commuter hotels and trip/duty rigs. I would almost certainly bet that we will get the trip/duty rigs when our contract is re-negotiated. The commuter hotels are more of a benefit though for junior guys. I wouldn’t bet much on this Union leadership going to bat for us on that one. They are clearly out to support the more senior pilots of the airline first.
08-29-2019, 11:31 AM
#134
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by DoSomePilotStuf
Ahhh, breaking out some Swayne eh?
Wonder what Swayne would think of our commuter policy, unlimited 2 attempts and 3 1 attempts per rolling 12 months? I believe that’s industry leading. Oh and for proof you just have to show there were seats available using any travel app you wish. Don’t even need a pass. So if your flights cancel due to weather, you don’t even have to drive to the airport. And yes, it’s an unlimited benefit with the 2 flight rule.
And thanks for showing us all you know with the comment about not knowing of any other airline with 11 min days off. In fact, Ol’ Swayne might think that’s a good deal as well. I’m pretty sure his airline is 11 min days off for all pilots regardless of the length of the month or lineholder status.
Now you do raise a couple of good points. It would be nice to have commuter hotels and trip/duty rigs. I would almost certainly bet that we will get the trip/duty rigs when our contract is re-negotiated. The commuter hotels are more of a benefit though for junior guys. I wouldn’t bet much on this Union leadership going to bat for us on that one. They are clearly out to support the more senior pilots of the airline first.
Wonder what Swayne would think of our commuter policy, unlimited 2 attempts and 3 1 attempts per rolling 12 months? I believe that’s industry leading. Oh and for proof you just have to show there were seats available using any travel app you wish. Don’t even need a pass. So if your flights cancel due to weather, you don’t even have to drive to the airport. And yes, it’s an unlimited benefit with the 2 flight rule.
And thanks for showing us all you know with the comment about not knowing of any other airline with 11 min days off. In fact, Ol’ Swayne might think that’s a good deal as well. I’m pretty sure his airline is 11 min days off for all pilots regardless of the length of the month or lineholder status.
Now you do raise a couple of good points. It would be nice to have commuter hotels and trip/duty rigs. I would almost certainly bet that we will get the trip/duty rigs when our contract is re-negotiated. The commuter hotels are more of a benefit though for junior guys. I wouldn’t bet much on this Union leadership going to bat for us on that one. They are clearly out to support the more senior pilots of the airline first.
No duty rigs and a min day pay of 2 hrs is laughable. Fix those and add in commuter hotels and we're actually getting somewhere.
Letter 2 is not exhaustive. The fact that United and Subodh won't come to the table on these issues and wish to create an extremely divisive and toxic work environment instead speaks to how they wish to run an airline.
New hires have to ask themselves if they really want to be a part of that. Current pilots know the answer and are bailing at an alarming rate.
08-29-2019, 11:36 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by SureJetz
No, they are out here to represent everyone. Don't try and play that game.
No duty rigs and a min day pay of 2 hrs is laughable. Fix those and add in commuter hotels and we're actually getting somewhere.
Letter 2 is not exhaustive. The fact that United and Subodh won't come to the table on these issues and wish to create an extremely divisive and toxic work environment instead speaks to how they wish to run an airline.
New hires have to ask themselves if they really want to be a part of that. Current pilots know the answer and are bailing at an alarming rate.
No duty rigs and a min day pay of 2 hrs is laughable. Fix those and add in commuter hotels and we're actually getting somewhere.
Letter 2 is not exhaustive. The fact that United and Subodh won't come to the table on these issues and wish to create an extremely divisive and toxic work environment instead speaks to how they wish to run an airline.
New hires have to ask themselves if they really want to be a part of that. Current pilots know the answer and are bailing at an alarming rate.
08-29-2019, 11:43 AM
#136
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by DoSomePilotStuf
Where are they bailing to?
Some have also taken positions with the LCC's and Atlas.
Last edited by SureJetz; 08-29-2019 at 12:15 PM.
08-29-2019, 12:08 PM
#140
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by DoSomePilotStuf
almost certainly bet
LOL.They probably used that term in the negotiations meeting.
"I know you think you understand what you thought I said but what you heard was not what I meant."
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