The Deal's Not Done
08-29-2019, 03:22 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: Whole lotta sitting
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by SureJetz
New hires have to ask themselves if they really want to be a part of that.
Personally, I need to be based at DFW or IAH. That narrows it down a bit. Here are the choices I think I had:
1) SkyWest - long training delays, long reserve times for DFW or IAH. Less than stellar reserve rules? Still probably #2 choice.
2) Envoy - got the pay raise finally, but DFW is senior, crummy reserve rules. Reading their forum, they don't seem too happy over there, even after the raise, lots of QOL complaints.
3) Mesa - questionable long term future for the E175s at IAH. Same for the AA flying out of DFW. Reserve and overall QOL not as good as XJT. Lower pay, but maybe the ability to make up for it with extra flying. Currently overstaffed on FO's for E175s (all IAH). 30 of their 60 E175s are up for contract renewal and are not yet renewed by UA.
4) Republic - great airline, QOL, pay, but IAH is very senior and very small. Republic has a history of closing and opening bases frequently, so it's a little unclear if IAH even lasts.
So for someone looking for DFW or IAH, right at ATP mins, is there really a better choice?
DBono
08-29-2019, 03:59 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 101
I’m not sure why this is so hard for folks on here to understand what has been going on here.
1. United knows XJT is top heavy. Close to 900 of 1400 people have been here 5+ years. 700 of 1400 have been here 10+ years. THERE IS NO REASON TO IMPROVE THE QOL. They are squeezing until probably at least half that top group leaves. When it’s at a certain point they are comfortable with they will be willing to grow the airline they will properly pay, or give a flow, or improve QOL.
2. They have given us brand new 175’s and a sim in the last few months. Those things aren’t leaving anytime soon. So the airline will be around for at least another 5-10+ years which compared to other regionals that’s a great position to be in.
3. Subodh seems to be attempting to get the pilot group to question what the union is truly doing behind the scenes creating animosity among the group.
1. United knows XJT is top heavy. Close to 900 of 1400 people have been here 5+ years. 700 of 1400 have been here 10+ years. THERE IS NO REASON TO IMPROVE THE QOL. They are squeezing until probably at least half that top group leaves. When it’s at a certain point they are comfortable with they will be willing to grow the airline they will properly pay, or give a flow, or improve QOL.
2. They have given us brand new 175’s and a sim in the last few months. Those things aren’t leaving anytime soon. So the airline will be around for at least another 5-10+ years which compared to other regionals that’s a great position to be in.
3. Subodh seems to be attempting to get the pilot group to question what the union is truly doing behind the scenes creating animosity among the group.
08-29-2019, 04:26 PM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by DBono
OK, I'll bite. Like Moose, I applied here because I'd heard and read that XJT had good QOL, so I'm not happy to hear about the stuff going on. But it's not clear to me what the better choice would be. XJT new hires don't have the choice of going to a ULCC or they probably would. Same for most of the ACMIs and even the upper tier fractionals/charters. So it's probably XJT or other regionals.
Personally, I need to be based at DFW or IAH. That narrows it down a bit. Here are the choices I think I had:
1) SkyWest - long training delays, long reserve times for DFW or IAH. Less than stellar reserve rules? Still probably #2 choice.
2) Envoy - got the pay raise finally, but DFW is senior, crummy reserve rules. Reading their forum, they don't seem too happy over there, even after the raise, lots of QOL complaints.
3) Mesa - questionable long term future for the E175s at IAH. Same for the AA flying out of DFW. Reserve and overall QOL not as good as XJT. Lower pay, but maybe the ability to make up for it with extra flying. Currently overstaffed on FO's for E175s (all IAH). 30 of their 60 E175s are up for contract renewal and are not yet renewed by UA.
4) Republic - great airline, QOL, pay, but IAH is very senior and very small. Republic has a history of closing and opening bases frequently, so it's a little unclear if IAH even lasts.
So for someone looking for DFW or IAH, right at ATP mins, is there really a better choice?
DBono
Personally, I need to be based at DFW or IAH. That narrows it down a bit. Here are the choices I think I had:
1) SkyWest - long training delays, long reserve times for DFW or IAH. Less than stellar reserve rules? Still probably #2 choice.
2) Envoy - got the pay raise finally, but DFW is senior, crummy reserve rules. Reading their forum, they don't seem too happy over there, even after the raise, lots of QOL complaints.
3) Mesa - questionable long term future for the E175s at IAH. Same for the AA flying out of DFW. Reserve and overall QOL not as good as XJT. Lower pay, but maybe the ability to make up for it with extra flying. Currently overstaffed on FO's for E175s (all IAH). 30 of their 60 E175s are up for contract renewal and are not yet renewed by UA.
4) Republic - great airline, QOL, pay, but IAH is very senior and very small. Republic has a history of closing and opening bases frequently, so it's a little unclear if IAH even lasts.
So for someone looking for DFW or IAH, right at ATP mins, is there really a better choice?
DBono
We have heard a lot about how bad it is that we have all this attrition. It’s a fantastic thing. I looked at the seniority list earlier today. There are only a couple hundred CA eligible pilots left on our seniority list, of which over half have already bypassed upgrades. For as many as there were here that had to wait years for upgrade, they have almost all been worked through and there are not many behind them. If we are losing 10 captains per week how long will it take to work through the few remaining eligible for upgrade?
QOL sucks at all regionals. I would love commuter hotels and trip/duty rigs. But those things are so far down the list for me it’s not even funny. I will be upgrading at 1000 hours, there will still be tons of flying and I will have gotten in and gotten out, at the base I wanted, faster than anyone else hired when I was at the base I wanted.
The guys on here with all the negativity about QOL cannot relate to what you and I are here for. They can only relate to the way things used to be, and then cherry pick other contracts and point out how much better others have it than us. There is such a huge disconnect between what these guys are preaching and what a new hire actually cares about.
08-29-2019, 04:34 PM
#145
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 83
Nopenopenope
Originally Posted by Lebron
I’m not sure why this is so hard for folks on here to understand what has been going on here.
1. United knows XJT is top heavy. Close to 900 of 1400 people have been here 5+ years. 700 of 1400 have been here 10+ years. THERE IS NO REASON TO IMPROVE THE QOL. They are squeezing until probably at least half that top group leaves. When it’s at a certain point they are comfortable with they will be willing to grow the airline they will properly pay, or give a flow, or improve QOL.
2. They have given us brand new 175’s and a sim in the last few months. Those things aren’t leaving anytime soon. So the airline will be around for at least another 5-10+ years which compared to other regionals that’s a great position to be in.
3. Subodh seems to be attempting to get the pilot group to question what the union is truly doing behind the scenes creating animosity among the group.
1. United knows XJT is top heavy. Close to 900 of 1400 people have been here 5+ years. 700 of 1400 have been here 10+ years. THERE IS NO REASON TO IMPROVE THE QOL. They are squeezing until probably at least half that top group leaves. When it’s at a certain point they are comfortable with they will be willing to grow the airline they will properly pay, or give a flow, or improve QOL.
2. They have given us brand new 175’s and a sim in the last few months. Those things aren’t leaving anytime soon. So the airline will be around for at least another 5-10+ years which compared to other regionals that’s a great position to be in.
3. Subodh seems to be attempting to get the pilot group to question what the union is truly doing behind the scenes creating animosity among the group.
Or the extra 70 something cents for a yr 18 CA vs year 2?
So for a full plane on a 2 hour trip it costs every pax about $1.72.
#3. I know union guys. I've known many. I don't know Subodh. And the sinking QOL is creating animosity and he's not helping.
It's like the boiling frog scenario: most people have realized that the pot is a whole lot warmer than it used to be.
Do the math on what United is going to make in the next 5 years without growing revenue vs. what they spent on us.
It's nothing. And it would cost next to nothing to fix this place.
As to 'the plan'? Don't know if there isn't one (more likely) or is malicious (less likely.)
08-29-2019, 04:48 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by YANXJTPilot
Top heavy for pay? Like the 16 cents per seat per hour for 1 year FO vs 8 year FO?
Or the extra 70 something cents for a yr 18 CA vs year 2?
So for a full plane on a 2 hour trip it costs every pax about $1.72.
#3. I know union guys. I've known many. I don't know Subodh. And the sinking QOL is creating animosity and he's not helping.
It's like the boiling frog scenario: most people have realized that the pot is a whole lot warmer than it used to be.
Do the math on what United is going to make in the next 5 years without growing revenue vs. what they spent on us.
It's nothing. And it would cost next to nothing to fix this place.
As to 'the plan'? Don't know if there isn't one (more likely) or is malicious (less likely.)
Or the extra 70 something cents for a yr 18 CA vs year 2?
So for a full plane on a 2 hour trip it costs every pax about $1.72.
#3. I know union guys. I've known many. I don't know Subodh. And the sinking QOL is creating animosity and he's not helping.
It's like the boiling frog scenario: most people have realized that the pot is a whole lot warmer than it used to be.
Do the math on what United is going to make in the next 5 years without growing revenue vs. what they spent on us.
It's nothing. And it would cost next to nothing to fix this place.
As to 'the plan'? Don't know if there isn't one (more likely) or is malicious (less likely.)
As to whether or not new hires move on quickly, that’s the current environment and it should be the goal. I’m simply pointing out that this company offers lots of advantages to someone in that position.
To someone trying to figure how many more cents per seat he makes than the guy he’s sitting next to maybe not so much.
08-29-2019, 04:54 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by YANXJTPilot
Top heavy for pay? Like the 16 cents per seat per hour for 1 year FO vs 8 year FO?
Or the extra 70 something cents for a yr 18 CA vs year 2?
So for a full plane on a 2 hour trip it costs every pax about $1.72.
#3. I know union guys. I've known many. I don't know Subodh. And the sinking QOL is creating animosity and he's not helping.
It's like the boiling frog scenario: most people have realized that the pot is a whole lot warmer than it used to be.
Do the math on what United is going to make in the next 5 years without growing revenue vs. what they spent on us.
It's nothing. And it would cost next to nothing to fix this place.
As to 'the plan'? Don't know if there isn't one (more likely) or is malicious (less likely.)
Or the extra 70 something cents for a yr 18 CA vs year 2?
So for a full plane on a 2 hour trip it costs every pax about $1.72.
#3. I know union guys. I've known many. I don't know Subodh. And the sinking QOL is creating animosity and he's not helping.
It's like the boiling frog scenario: most people have realized that the pot is a whole lot warmer than it used to be.
Do the math on what United is going to make in the next 5 years without growing revenue vs. what they spent on us.
It's nothing. And it would cost next to nothing to fix this place.
As to 'the plan'? Don't know if there isn't one (more likely) or is malicious (less likely.)
Delta is the clear leader in running an airline and a regional product. United will come around making that change to do that but in the meantime they are going to cut off some fat.
08-29-2019, 06:40 PM
#149
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by DBono
OK, I'll bite. Like Moose, I applied here because I'd heard and read that XJT had good QOL, so I'm not happy to hear about the stuff going on. But it's not clear to me what the better choice would be. XJT new hires don't have the choice of going to a ULCC or they probably would. Same for most of the ACMIs and even the upper tier fractionals/charters. So it's probably XJT or other regionals.
Personally, I need to be based at DFW or IAH. That narrows it down a bit. Here are the choices I think I had:
1) SkyWest - long training delays, long reserve times for DFW or IAH. Less than stellar reserve rules? Still probably #2 choice.
2) Envoy - got the pay raise finally, but DFW is senior, crummy reserve rules. Reading their forum, they don't seem too happy over there, even after the raise, lots of QOL complaints.
3) Mesa - questionable long term future for the E175s at IAH. Same for the AA flying out of DFW. Reserve and overall QOL not as good as XJT. Lower pay, but maybe the ability to make up for it with extra flying. Currently overstaffed on FO's for E175s (all IAH). 30 of their 60 E175s are up for contract renewal and are not yet renewed by UA.
4) Republic - great airline, QOL, pay, but IAH is very senior and very small. Republic has a history of closing and opening bases frequently, so it's a little unclear if IAH even lasts.
So for someone looking for DFW or IAH, right at ATP mins, is there really a better choice?
DBono
Personally, I need to be based at DFW or IAH. That narrows it down a bit. Here are the choices I think I had:
1) SkyWest - long training delays, long reserve times for DFW or IAH. Less than stellar reserve rules? Still probably #2 choice.
2) Envoy - got the pay raise finally, but DFW is senior, crummy reserve rules. Reading their forum, they don't seem too happy over there, even after the raise, lots of QOL complaints.
3) Mesa - questionable long term future for the E175s at IAH. Same for the AA flying out of DFW. Reserve and overall QOL not as good as XJT. Lower pay, but maybe the ability to make up for it with extra flying. Currently overstaffed on FO's for E175s (all IAH). 30 of their 60 E175s are up for contract renewal and are not yet renewed by UA.
4) Republic - great airline, QOL, pay, but IAH is very senior and very small. Republic has a history of closing and opening bases frequently, so it's a little unclear if IAH even lasts.
So for someone looking for DFW or IAH, right at ATP mins, is there really a better choice?
DBono
The flow and the upgrade time is much more of a certainty at Envoy than here I can tell you that much. However, you will get a line and your FO seniority will increase much faster at XJT. Your short term prospects are much better at Expressjet but things flip after you get past the 2 yr mark if that makes sense?
Would you move to Houston or stay in Dallas?
08-29-2019, 06:48 PM
#150
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by DoSomePilotStuf
We have heard a lot about how bad it is that we have all this attrition. It’s a fantastic thing. I looked at the seniority list earlier today. There are only a couple hundred CA eligible pilots left on our seniority list, of which over half have already bypassed upgrades. For as many as there were here that had to wait years for upgrade, they have almost all been worked through and there are not many behind them. If we are losing 10 captains per week how long will it take to work through the few remaining eligible for upgrade?
QOL sucks at all regionals. I would love commuter hotels and trip/duty rigs. But those things are so far down the list for me it’s not even funny. I will be upgrading at 1000 hours, there will still be tons of flying and I will have gotten in and gotten out, at the base I wanted, faster than anyone else hired when I was at the base I wanted.
The guys on here with all the negativity about QOL cannot relate to what you and I are here for. They can only relate to the way things used to be, and then cherry pick other contracts and point out how much better others have it than us. There is such a huge disconnect between what these guys are preaching and what a new hire actually cares about.
QOL sucks at all regionals. I would love commuter hotels and trip/duty rigs. But those things are so far down the list for me it’s not even funny. I will be upgrading at 1000 hours, there will still be tons of flying and I will have gotten in and gotten out, at the base I wanted, faster than anyone else hired when I was at the base I wanted.
The guys on here with all the negativity about QOL cannot relate to what you and I are here for. They can only relate to the way things used to be, and then cherry pick other contracts and point out how much better others have it than us. There is such a huge disconnect between what these guys are preaching and what a new hire actually cares about.
You will not upgrade at 1,000hrs. It only takes 18 months or so to hit that many hours. The most junior upgrade is 3 yrs, and that's in EWR. The rest are all around 10 (ORD) or 12 yrs (IAH). That will come down to around 4-5 yrs but that's not upgrading right away. Stop selling ferry tales.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
