I agree that we need much better work rules.
You're statement that no one understands our line bidding is false. Unless you're talking about the legacy asa pilots. However, even some of them have come to understand it and embrace it. This is what I have observed while being currently employed at XJT.

 

You guys might be talking about two separate issues:

One group is saying "I got a better schedule!". Ok, that can be true.

The other is saying: "Yes, but you don't know how (or refuse to learn) how to work the system to IMPROVE your awarded schedule...which is what matters: what you fly in the end." Also can be true.

I can guarantee I've seen schedules from people that know how to work the system that are ASTOUNDING.

17-21 says off (WITHOUT VACATION) and some of the flying they did (picked up) was Red Flag.

It takes some work. There are people at this airline who don't fly ANY of their awarded schedule. And they are regular line pilots. Not management, instructors, etc.

Frankly, I prefer being able to improve and use my wits a little vs. sitting there and waiting on seniority to come to me.

The current system has both: a fair amount of respect to seniority (senior people get better lines to begin with) AND benefits for those who hustle a little. (Line improvement, strategic bidding, drops, advertising, LIVE IN BASE for last minute changes, etc.)

I bet at least half of the ASA pilots don't know what 'vacation slide' is for example.

I overheard someone talking about a program that alerts you for open time trips that you specify that drop. THAT'S BUILT IN TO Skedplus now! Do you use it? That program was years ago. Not keeping up with things can cost you.

 

^^This sums it up nicely, lines honor seniority and the initial window allows anyone who so desires to improve their schedule. If they don’t want to, they can fly their line. I am one of the 22+ day off people a month. Obviously management would loveeee to get rid of this. But it’s a huge benefit to have the flexibility to either fly or not fly.

 

SJ, first off there's no negativity. We are all in this together.

Everybody on the seniority list has suffered.

The ASA PBS system with the language that ran it was superior to line bidding. You credit high, fly less, with lots of days off. Thats what all pilots want.

What should tell EVERYBODY of how good it was is that management hated it. That is the tell tale sign of good contract language for pilots.

Now that being said, if our negotiators are not shooting for the sky then they should all be relieved of there duties.

With the environment being what it is currently. It's time for Mana Air and Untied to pony up.



701EV

 

I highly doubt any ASA PBS system was better than line bidding. Back when ASA was doing PBS, XJT had 400+ lines in base with 20 days off at the max with plenty of high time flying.

If you were senior you didn't have to do anything to your schedule. The junior line holders, by using the ILIW, could make their schedule as good if not better than the senior pilots. Did you get that? Junior line holders having the option to make their line much, much better. PBS can't compare.

During vacation there was no vacation low but something better called trip touch. Senior pilots showed up for 1 trip during a vacation month and were paid for 75. Other pilots used two weeks vacation and were gone for up to two months by choice. PBS can't compare.

 

So let me get this straight.

Approximately 250 people that:

- Started their careers bidding with a line bidding system almost identical to the current XJT system

- reluctantly changed to a PBS process that ultimately became accepted and loved by almost all

-recently started using the same system of bidding they used almost 10 years ago, and (you find me one guy that bid using the flica version of PBS that likes line bidding better) have all expressed that there are better ways to bid for one’s schedule

- are just a bunch of bitter goons whose opinions bear no credibility for the argument

AND

- 500 guys who, have only used a line bidding system and have never used “the flica version of PBS that hundreds of guys swear by, can say without doubt that one system is better for the group than the other

To sum it up - how can one, that has only experienced ONE system, tell the guy that has experienced BOTH that his view of BOTH systems is wrong?

I could be off here - have YOU bid for a regular schedule for years using flica PBS under a relatively decent contract?

 

You fail to understand we’ve been using Smart Pref for years on the secondary for relief lines. It’s not apples to apples since the trips leftover it used to build were usually crap. The thing that is comparable and useful is seeing what it does, or shall I say doesn’t do with a vacation week. You’re lucky to get a couple days on each end of the vacation week. No thanks!

You’ve been told over and over that the work rules of the old ASA PBS won’t be coming here but it just doesn’t sink in...

Not to mention commutable lines will never be comparable to hitting the max credit and max days off buttons on a PBS system while LIVING IN BASE in the Atlanta area.

 

I get it man. For one, you don’t get me. And I share similar views with many.

I get your view. Totally. I personally would NEVER agree to using a PBS process that works the way this pref bid thing works. It’s garbage at best. I was so confused when using it for the first time. You can be close to the most senior relief line holder and it ignores all logic within your preferences. Some crazy magic going on behind the scenes. There’s a lot of company control going on in the frame work. That’s NOT the PBS ex-CRJ guys are used to.

So yes - the apples to apples argument fails in many ways. All people that used the Flica version of PBS under that contract know that the company absolutely hated it. It favored the pilot group in so many ways.

PBS is coming. Regardless of what people may think. The ex- CRJ guys that have seen the good, the bad and the ugly are a good gauge of what should be acceptable and what is not when it comes to bidding. They fought for the system that was used for years. And it was far superior to any PBS software that has been introduced to the original ERJ group in the past.

We need some unity. Some trust in each other. The fact that years later we are still at each other’s throats over PBS gives management that much more leverage over us.

 

What you fail to realize is that you experienced a top-shelf PBS when the airline was staffed; in some cases over-staffed. I was there too— believe me I’d love a return to those days.

That ship has sailed. You will be working 90+ hours a month in perpetuity. Flightline, vacation low, and reasonable credit windows are all gone and no language can replace them. Minimum staffing levels? Please.

Learn to use the line bidding and improvement windows to their full extent and do not wish upon the rest of us what is essentially a tool for enhanced abuse so you can get your two favorite NFL game days off. Thanks

 

You guys should just keep using the word FAIL while referring to each other. That’s not passive aggressive AT ALL, and will definitely help you guys find a resolution. Time has proven that the pilot group has no power in this situation anyways, so it’s a moot point.