ASA / Expressjet merge pilot groups?
05-25-2011, 11:52 PM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by surreal1221
We, unfortunately, have a lot of guys who are not ready to bite and draw blood.
Over the next three to five years a great deal of movement is going to occur within our industry. We (speaking for those of us who do not want to make a regional a career destination) need to bite, and bite hard. The time is now to recoup the lost time with families, the furloughs, to poor reserve utilization, poor pairing / line construction, the ridiculous behavior of management over the past three years - in the form of significant contract improvements FOR those of us who will likely remain on property (so long as the company exists) over the next two to five years...and even for those who will fill our shoes when we finally can escape this place.
So...no point having a good attack dog if it won't draw blood.
Passive negotiations get you nothing of substance.
Contact your status reps, voice your concerns, attend LEC and MEC Public meetings. Reach out to your volunteers working on YOUR behalf on the ASA and XJT JNC. Call them up, send them an e-mail. Do far more than complaining and challenging an ASA or XJT pilots' opinion on this very forum. Become active.
In the end, we all need to remember that we will be one pilot group - one labor group - doing the work provided to us by our management team. Who will we stand next to when the time is necessary? Each other. One group, one contract. This is still peace time, but if we don't collectively start thinking with a tactical mindset, we all will pay the price.
Over the next three to five years a great deal of movement is going to occur within our industry. We (speaking for those of us who do not want to make a regional a career destination) need to bite, and bite hard. The time is now to recoup the lost time with families, the furloughs, to poor reserve utilization, poor pairing / line construction, the ridiculous behavior of management over the past three years - in the form of significant contract improvements FOR those of us who will likely remain on property (so long as the company exists) over the next two to five years...and even for those who will fill our shoes when we finally can escape this place.
So...no point having a good attack dog if it won't draw blood.
Passive negotiations get you nothing of substance.
Contact your status reps, voice your concerns, attend LEC and MEC Public meetings. Reach out to your volunteers working on YOUR behalf on the ASA and XJT JNC. Call them up, send them an e-mail. Do far more than complaining and challenging an ASA or XJT pilots' opinion on this very forum. Become active.
In the end, we all need to remember that we will be one pilot group - one labor group - doing the work provided to us by our management team. Who will we stand next to when the time is necessary? Each other. One group, one contract. This is still peace time, but if we don't collectively start thinking with a tactical mindset, we all will pay the price.
05-26-2011, 05:22 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I can fly.....I'm a pilot
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by surreal1221
We, unfortunately, have a lot of guys who are not ready to bite and draw blood.
Over the next three to five years a great deal of movement is going to occur within our industry. We (speaking for those of us who do not want to make a regional a career destination) need to bite, and bite hard. The time is now to recoup the lost time with families, the furloughs, to poor reserve utilization, poor pairing / line construction, the ridiculous behavior of management over the past three years - in the form of significant contract improvements FOR those of us who will likely remain on property (so long as the company exists) over the next two to five years...and even for those who will fill our shoes when we finally can escape this place.
So...no point having a good attack dog if it won't draw blood.
Passive negotiations get you nothing of substance.
Contact your status reps, voice your concerns, attend LEC and MEC Public meetings. Reach out to your volunteers working on YOUR behalf on the ASA and XJT JNC. Call them up, send them an e-mail. Do far more than complaining and challenging an ASA or XJT pilots' opinion on this very forum. Become active.
In the end, we all need to remember that we will be one pilot group - one labor group - doing the work provided to us by our management team. Who will we stand next to when the time is necessary? Each other. One group, one contract. This is still peace time, but if we don't collectively start thinking with a tactical mindset, we all will pay the price.
Over the next three to five years a great deal of movement is going to occur within our industry. We (speaking for those of us who do not want to make a regional a career destination) need to bite, and bite hard. The time is now to recoup the lost time with families, the furloughs, to poor reserve utilization, poor pairing / line construction, the ridiculous behavior of management over the past three years - in the form of significant contract improvements FOR those of us who will likely remain on property (so long as the company exists) over the next two to five years...and even for those who will fill our shoes when we finally can escape this place.
So...no point having a good attack dog if it won't draw blood.
Passive negotiations get you nothing of substance.
Contact your status reps, voice your concerns, attend LEC and MEC Public meetings. Reach out to your volunteers working on YOUR behalf on the ASA and XJT JNC. Call them up, send them an e-mail. Do far more than complaining and challenging an ASA or XJT pilots' opinion on this very forum. Become active.
In the end, we all need to remember that we will be one pilot group - one labor group - doing the work provided to us by our management team. Who will we stand next to when the time is necessary? Each other. One group, one contract. This is still peace time, but if we don't collectively start thinking with a tactical mindset, we all will pay the price.
05-26-2011, 05:29 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
I think there are enough asa people feeling like the XJT pilot group to have a majority. The way Asa has been treated over the past few months is the way XJT has been treated for going on two years. We are tired, we know crew costs are not going to bankrupt our company, and we have been wading through managements poor decisions long enough. Any Pbs system that management is hoping to RAM down our throats is not going to end well.
05-26-2011, 05:42 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I can fly.....I'm a pilot
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by PBSG
That sucks for them, however I am NOT A F(CKING RAMPER!!!! I am a very intregal part of this company. I didn't take a week long course on how to stack bags in a bin. It took years and a lot of time, effort and money to do what I do!
And no I'm not a hat wearer or an egomaniac who needs to be called Captain by everyone. I'm just sick of seeing and hearing people diminish the pilot group as "just another work group". We are the engine that runs this airline, not some schmuck who filled out an application at the airport. Get some damn pride and sack up!!
And no I'm not a hat wearer or an egomaniac who needs to be called Captain by everyone. I'm just sick of seeing and hearing people diminish the pilot group as "just another work group". We are the engine that runs this airline, not some schmuck who filled out an application at the airport. Get some damn pride and sack up!!
Last edited by somertime32; 05-26-2011 at 09:15 AM.
05-26-2011, 09:26 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: At JBLU
Posts: 337
Well, mission accomplished with PBS........for Mgt
The WORST schedule I EVER had with line bidding was crappy 4 days over the weekend.
Now, I have 2 five days, a three day and a SIX DAY!! Before anyone chimes in that we don't have five or six day trips, your right. Two days were tacked on before my three and four day trips. Some of the 3 days are blocked at a whopping 8 hours. LOTS of sitting around in hotels, away from home.
The union and pilot group are so drunk with koolade they just say "you should learn how to bid" Well, there are a lot of us with these 5 and 6 day trips on our schedule.
Net result is that I have 4 less days off than i would under line bidding
Congratulations to Brad Holt, he played our pilot group like a fiddle. The senior guys get what they want, and many guys on reserve get a line, so they are awesome PBS salespeople. The reserve guys are like dogs beaten for a couple of years. They are soooooo happy to get a bone it's like winning the lottery.
Us in the middle not so much.
Mgt WILL turn the screws much worse on PBS once it is voted in on property. Vote NO!!!!
The WORST schedule I EVER had with line bidding was crappy 4 days over the weekend.
Now, I have 2 five days, a three day and a SIX DAY!! Before anyone chimes in that we don't have five or six day trips, your right. Two days were tacked on before my three and four day trips. Some of the 3 days are blocked at a whopping 8 hours. LOTS of sitting around in hotels, away from home.
The union and pilot group are so drunk with koolade they just say "you should learn how to bid" Well, there are a lot of us with these 5 and 6 day trips on our schedule.
Net result is that I have 4 less days off than i would under line bidding
Congratulations to Brad Holt, he played our pilot group like a fiddle. The senior guys get what they want, and many guys on reserve get a line, so they are awesome PBS salespeople. The reserve guys are like dogs beaten for a couple of years. They are soooooo happy to get a bone it's like winning the lottery.
Us in the middle not so much.
Mgt WILL turn the screws much worse on PBS once it is voted in on property. Vote NO!!!!
05-26-2011, 04:21 PM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 903
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Another guy that "gets it". And believe me, the guy you quoted "gets it" as well.
Originally Posted by somertime32
good post man!
Ask more from your elected representatives, ask more from your volunteers...and if you feel comfortable enough, seek out some opportunities to help the pilot group yourselves. I can't speak for XJT, but I know we at ASA are going to need every able body person to help us achieve whatever contract goals our JNC is going after...
The fight isn't within our pilot groups, it's with those who don't respect labor and the services we provide. Don't be fooled by these BBQ's and One Team slogans.
But hey - Thanks gents.
05-28-2011, 07:14 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by somertime32
So people who work around airplanes but don't fly them are "schmucks"??? nice attitude..... Both our companies would probably be better off if we had our own rampers but that has gone to the cheapest bidder with the exception of hubs. As far as being integral....look at SW....Quality rampers= ability to turn aircraft fast. I am amazed at the way some pilots treat people who work around the plane, it disgusts me. Sure there are slackers but there are in every job and every seat, that doesn't mean they are "schmucks". 5+ years ramp work for 2 large airlines so I have been on the end of "oh.....you're just a ramper"
I've been called a "poor silly soul" by former management for wanting to do my job AND get paid properly for it, yet management has no problems bringing in and paying "top talent to retain their services".
A popular phrase comes to mind: "This would be a great airline if it weren't for the pilots!"
05-28-2011, 08:11 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by coopervane
Well, mission accomplished with PBS........for Mgt
The WORST schedule I EVER had with line bidding was crappy 4 days over the weekend.
Now, I have 2 five days, a three day and a SIX DAY!! Before anyone chimes in that we don't have five or six day trips, your right. Two days were tacked on before my three and four day trips. Some of the 3 days are blocked at a whopping 8 hours. LOTS of sitting around in hotels, away from home.
The union and pilot group are so drunk with koolade they just say "you should learn how to bid" Well, there are a lot of us with these 5 and 6 day trips on our schedule.
Net result is that I have 4 less days off than i would under line bidding
Congratulations to Brad Holt, he played our pilot group like a fiddle. The senior guys get what they want, and many guys on reserve get a line, so they are awesome PBS salespeople. The reserve guys are like dogs beaten for a couple of years. They are soooooo happy to get a bone it's like winning the lottery.
Us in the middle not so much.
Mgt WILL turn the screws much worse on PBS once it is voted in on property. Vote NO!!!!
The WORST schedule I EVER had with line bidding was crappy 4 days over the weekend.
Now, I have 2 five days, a three day and a SIX DAY!! Before anyone chimes in that we don't have five or six day trips, your right. Two days were tacked on before my three and four day trips. Some of the 3 days are blocked at a whopping 8 hours. LOTS of sitting around in hotels, away from home.
The union and pilot group are so drunk with koolade they just say "you should learn how to bid" Well, there are a lot of us with these 5 and 6 day trips on our schedule.
Net result is that I have 4 less days off than i would under line bidding
Congratulations to Brad Holt, he played our pilot group like a fiddle. The senior guys get what they want, and many guys on reserve get a line, so they are awesome PBS salespeople. The reserve guys are like dogs beaten for a couple of years. They are soooooo happy to get a bone it's like winning the lottery.
Us in the middle not so much.
Mgt WILL turn the screws much worse on PBS once it is voted in on property. Vote NO!!!!
Just my two cents. There are two sides to every coin....
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