dojetdriver

As previously mentioned, the scare tactics have already taken place;

Nope, it's been beat to death. The reason that XJT had to take concessions was because CAL decided to squeeze the crap out of them. With Jerry's help. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there something about 80+ million dollars saved by the "synergies" of the two companies? Well, was that planned on a concession level that management somehow already foresaw?

Sorry brother, but taking ANOTHER concession is unrealistic. If XJT had to inherit the ASA CBA, it's be a concession. I've read them both side by side. Sorry, one is better than the other. And I'll extend you the SAME offer I have to other ASA pilots that's don't seem to want to take it. I'll compare the scheduling, reserve, compensation, sick rate accrual, and retirement provisions head to head if you want for comparison purposes. I'll tell you right now, there's only 3 things in the ASA CBA concerning the above that are better than the XJT CBA. But I don't think a single XJT pilot would be willing to give up ANYTHING for those 3.

Unless the XJT CBA at a MINIMUM stays intact work rules wise, but with pay raises, it's a concession, PERIOD.

PeezDog

Thank you. First thing I read that makes sense.

johnpeace

I get that. I've looked at the portions of the Xjet contract that are analogous to the ASA contract that most concern me (scheduling, compensation, reserve). It's (even in it's present state) a better contract.

I just don't see how it's possible, in 2012, to negotiate a contract as good as the one you could get pre-bankruptcy in 2004.

That's not a realistic goal...it's a different world.

And that doesn't even speak to how different the flying we do (for DAL) is compared to your relationship with Continental.

I don't blame you for wanting what you want...hey, go for it. I just don't think it's reasonable in this climate and will be ****ed if your holding out for it keeps ME from getting a contract and moving forward.

Like I said, the deal we get handed to us from mediation is going to be worse than what you refuse to settle for. It always is.

dojetdriver

The XJT contract now is better than 04 as far as workrules go. There have been numerous LOA's/MOU's that have made it better. The ONLY thing worse is the pay.

Tell me how different it is? The 2008 CPA that CAL (with Jerry's help) squeezed XJT into is cost neutral. Is ASA's current deal with DAL cost neutral, or is there a profit?

What makes you think there is going to mediation anyways?

On a personal note, I've been through FOUR pay concessions, and in EVERY case it didn't make a damn bit of difference. Management seemed to screw it up every time. How many you been through where you can speak from experience that a concession is going to help you?

PruneJuice

I'm glad I get to see this from the outside. I have a feeling this is going to be long and nasty and that is just the jcba, it'll be even worse with the sli.

johnpeace

That pretty much sums up why it will take us forever to get a crappy arbitrated contract.

newarkblows

I dont think this will go to arbitration. If the MEC's pass the TA on to the pilot group for a vote the ASA pilots and a small group of xjt pilots could very easily ram this thing down our throats. If they give us a TA that is similar or slightly under what xjt has now i am betting most ASA guys would see it as as a yes vote and it would only take a small portion of the xjt pilot group (even though we are bigger) to pass it. Which is why I dont think our MEC is sending anything to the pilots until it improves on our current contract.

The scare tactics of "we need to this to remain competitive" are incredibly tired. Considering the amount of waste that goes on at all levels of the company (most notably scheduling) is a much larger waste of resources. Giving pilots an extra $1 or $2 an hour with a half respectable retirement account is not going to be the difference between insolvency and profitability. a reduction in the millions of dollars in bonuses and stock they give to upper level management can quickly fill in any hole created by a new contract.

By merging the companies they have said they are gaining 30-40 million a year in savings which doesn't include the bulk discounts on spare parts. If they want us to have PBS they are making the pilot group more efficient which saves them money while drastically reducing our QOL. They cannot cry poor!

Scare tactics and boo hoo sob stories about people wanting a fast upgrade or more airplanes is exactly what management wants. They have the money!

SayAgain

Agreed......

WstCstCmtr

What are you talking about... you have no idea what you're talking about.

dojetdriver

That's fine, let it drag out as long as it takes. Let the managements continue to waste money on the redundancies that exist till they can get their act together. I'm fine with working under the current XJT CBA till a better deal comes along, and refuse to take ANOTHER concession.

You still haven't answered the question, whey do you think it will go to arbitration? How long have you worked at ASA? Did your current contract come from arbitration? Or was it simply drug out forever till the MEC and management FINALLY agreed on something and it was voted in by the piilot group?

How is ASA's DAL flying different than XJT's CAL flying?