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Old 04-23-2019, 12:00 PM   #41  
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Southwest and Hawaiian Airlines frequently hire pilots without a bachelors degree.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:01 PM   #42  
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Originally Posted by Hank Burley View Post
The military retires, separates, and provides drill status guardsmen/reservists every year at a rate well above what Fedex needs to hire. And do you know what all of them have?
Not all of them. Maybe 99%, but not all.

Your point is well taken however.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:31 PM   #43  
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So... higher education is related to higher IQ therefore, better job performance...WOW....your theory is kind of right @KAVOK84 but doesn't relate in the industry that we work on my friend.

I don't know where you have flown, but it seems to me that only in america and with colleagues that speak your same language..

Let me explain myself.... In China, where i have flown couple years, the pilots know the FCOM by heart, the procedures, better tan you can possibly imagine and so on... Most of them have a very high IQ, but...when **** hits the fan, they get lost, VERY lost and therefore, they are not allowed to fly a heavy jet.

My point is, that you dont have to have a 4 year degree to be a safe and efficient guy flying an airplane, you just have to be a happy and appreciated person in your airline to get the job well done. If an airline is not able to recognize the experience in the real life that we live in, instead of having a 4 year degree, and they are having trouble finding pilots..then there is a problem, because in this industry, is not a better pilot who haves a higher IQ, is the one that gets the job done in a safe and efficient way, thats it, and experience is the only thing that can get you there
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:05 PM   #44  
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So... higher education is related to higher IQ therefore, better job performance...WOW....your theory is kind of right @KAVOK84 but doesn't relate in the industry that we work on my friend.

I don't know where you have flown, but it seems to me that only in america and with colleagues that speak your same language..

Let me explain myself.... In China, where i have flown couple years, the pilots know the FCOM by heart, the procedures, better tan you can possibly imagine and so on... Most of them have a very high IQ, but...when **** hits the fan, they get lost, VERY lost and therefore, they are not allowed to fly a heavy jet.

My point is, that you dont have to have a 4 year degree to be a safe and efficient guy flying an airplane, you just have to be a happy and appreciated person in your airline to get the job well done. If an airline is not able to recognize the experience in the real life that we live in, instead of having a 4 year degree, and they are having trouble finding pilots..then there is a problem, because in this industry, is not a better pilot who haves a higher IQ, is the one that gets the job done in a safe and efficient way, thats it, and experience is the only thing that can get you there


I get it that you don't like the 4 year degree requirement. I also agree that a 4 year degree isn't what makes someone a good pilot. However, right now, there are plenty of pilots that have experience and a 4 year degree. This requirement isn't something new, the majors have had this requirement for over a quarter of a century. If you made the decision not to pursue a degree, then that is your choice. That doesn't mean that you aren't a good pilot, it just means that you won't get called for an interview at the present time. If you want to work at FedEx, UPS, or one of the major US passenger carriers, get your degree. If you don't want to do that, fine, but coming on here complaining that the requirement isn't fair is just sour grapes. Companies get to make the requirement for the people they want to employ. Right now in the US, these companies don't want to hire someone who has the potential to make over $300K per year if they aren't motivated enough to get a degree.

Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:16 PM   #45  
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Originally Posted by Mcdowel View Post
So... higher education is related to higher IQ therefore, better job performance...WOW....your theory is kind of right @KAVOK84 but doesn't relate in the industry that we work on my friend.

I don't know where you have flown, but it seems to me that only in america and with colleagues that speak your same language..

Let me explain myself.... In China, where i have flown couple years, the pilots know the FCOM by heart, the procedures, better tan you can possibly imagine and so on... Most of them have a very high IQ, but...when **** hits the fan, they get lost, VERY lost and therefore, they are not allowed to fly a heavy jet.

My point is, that you dont have to have a 4 year degree to be a safe and efficient guy flying an airplane, you just have to be a happy and appreciated person in your airline to get the job well done. If an airline is not able to recognize the experience in the real life that we live in, instead of having a 4 year degree, and they are having trouble finding pilots..then there is a problem, because in this industry, is not a better pilot who haves a higher IQ, is the one that gets the job done in a safe and efficient way, thats it, and experience is the only thing that can get you there
This chicken and egg argument has been debated ad naseum on here. In reality this argument breaks down to those without a degree, arguing against it and those with a degree (usually employed at the carriers the guys without degree are wanting to work for) stating just bite the bullet. Personally I believe it’s a barrier to entry and if we want to be treated and paid as professionals it should stay. The carriers that pay lowest wages (ie regionals) don’t require it and as such hire any pilot with a pulse and pay as such. What others here are trying to get you to understand is that the legacy’s want a well rounded applicant, not just stick and rudder guys. One of the many reasons they have lately been putting a emphasis on volunteer work. We aren’t plumbers or welders and we view ourselves as white collared professionals. As such an emphasis on higher education is a good thing.
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #46  
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I just read an article this week that says the US is the only country that requires 4 year degrees for its commercial pilots and that is part of the reason behind the shortage.
The companies who have a self imposed degree requirements have such requirements because of an excess in applicants. I don’t even have to read the article to know this is written by an uninformed outsider.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:14 PM   #47  
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There isnít currently a shortage so it isnít going away.

The company can require whatever they deem fit for their applicants. If they want a moon landing they could require that. They could require a specific type rating if they wish. If they only want people with master degrees in English Lit they could do that too.

I donít understand the complaining about the degree. Itís a free market a company can set whatever requirements they wish.
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:18 PM   #48  
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Is Turbine PIC 1000 still a must???
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:27 PM   #49  
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Plenty that turned down a legacy to come to Fedex? Okay, that would be a new one to me to hear plenty doing that. When did you turn down United to go to Fedex.
Last year. It happens frequently.
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:29 PM   #50  
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So... higher education is related to higher IQ therefore, better job performance...WOW....your theory is kind of right @KAVOK84 but doesn't relate in the industry that we work on my friend.
I think you misunderstand what I was saying. I was providing statistical data, of which there is quite a bit supporting my statements, as a rant against the crappy article. My post was just intended to provide one plausible motivation any company could have in requiring higher education even if that education is unlikely to be relevant to the job.

So while the best, smartest pilot around may not have a high school education or any formal education, on average (since we're talking about populations) reducing qualifications to attract a larger applicant base would in all likelihood have the effects I stated.

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I don't know where you have flown, but it seems to me that only in america and with colleagues that speak your same language.
All over the world. I'm well aware that what I'm saying is a bit more specific to the american airline industry, but I also stated that in the original post.

Quote:
Let me explain myself.... In China, where i have flown couple years, the pilots know the FCOM by heart, the procedures, better tan you can possibly imagine and so on... Most of them have a very high IQ, but...when **** hits the fan, they get lost, VERY lost and therefore, they are not allowed to fly a heavy jet.
I understand, I've done a lot of flying in China myself. Again, I was never saying high IQ made you a good pilot... What I was trying to express is that barring more effective job relevant data (e.g., flight experience, types flown, training history) mental aptitude is highly predictive of performance. This is especially valid when an applicant lacks previous experience within a given field. Since that isn't the case with applicants of major US airlines, suitability is almost entirely determined in other ways. However, since the US majors have plenty of applicants-- as of now-- requiring the degree is a fairly straight forward way to ensure (on a population scale) the airline is spending its efforts on the best applicants. In other words, it's a cheap and easy way to chop the stack of resumes to a more manageable level-- especially in countries like the US where a tremendous amount of importance is placed on going to college, regardless of an individual's career plans.

Quote:
My point is, that you dont have to have a 4 year degree to be a safe and efficient guy flying an airplane, you just have to be a happy and appreciated person in your airline to get the job well done. If an airline is not able to recognize the experience in the real life that we live in, instead of having a 4 year degree, and they are having trouble finding pilots..then there is a problem, because in this industry, is not a better pilot who haves a higher IQ, is the one that gets the job done in a safe and efficient way, thats it, and experience is the only thing that can get you there
Of course I agree with you. And with the US airlines, the requirements will probably change soon based on market forces. I imagine the degree will go the way of the 1000 PIC for some airlines if it becomes difficult to attract pilots. Wishing for this outcome though is a mixed blessing; while it might be easier to get your first major airline job, that job may find itself inundated with qualified pilots (pay likely to go down eventually) as barriers to entry are removed and training is paid for. Ultimately, you still need good-qualified pilots... minimum qualifications will probably continue to ebb and flow with the market and nature of the mission.

My rant was mainly motivated by this type of aviation article, of which I've seen more and more lately. The author typically spouts some obvious fix for a perceived problem, devoid of any diligence or effort, and oftentimes as a guise for some ill-formed political ideology. They then choose to back up these claims with little to no expertise in aviation.

Hope that clarified things.
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